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House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

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Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#31

Post by slowin »

cameldrv wrote: post #30
kixiQu wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is better is ultimately subjective Most folks subjectively prefer having light after work because that's when it's more fun to do stuff. Unfortunately, the health impacts are (objectively!) worse under permanent daylight saving time. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7954020/ https://www.ama-assn.org/public-health/prevention-wellness/s... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6436388/ (I've heard th…

Most people also prefer to wake up a bit after the sun rises. Daylight Savings approximates having the sun come up at the same time each day. People do not want to wake up in the dark.

If you wake up in the dark you are ensured to use the maximum amount of daylight possible. You also have the added benefit of being able to sleep until you need to get up instead of being woken up early by the sun.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#32

Post by bell-cot »

gepeake wrote: post #11

> But detractors say it could have economic consequences, particularly for farmers who would have to wrestle with later sunrises. I genuinely don't understand the "farmer's like DST" argument. Farmer's schedules are dictated by the sun not the time and the sun changes continuously year round. If the argument is about commercial coordination that follows the same logic of being difficult regardless given constantly sh…

THIS. To quote Wikipedia:

> It is a common myth in the United States that DST was first implemented for the benefit of farmers.[40][41][42] In reality, farmers have been one of the strongest lobbying groups against DST since it was first implemented.[40][41][42] The factors that influence farming schedules, such as morning dew and dairy cattle's readiness to be milked, are ultimately dictated by the sun, so the clock change introduces unnecessary challenges.[40][42][43]

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#33

Post by rho138 »

_This_ is the great herculean push for workers rights from Gen X — abolishment of the cruel Standard Time! What a fucking joke that this is what we send people to washington for, while citizens are summarily executed in the streets and cost of living skyrockets.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#34

Post by quantified »

al_borland wrote: post #16
gepeake wrote: post #11

> But detractors say it could have economic consequences, particularly for farmers who would have to wrestle with later sunrises. I genuinely don't understand the "farmer's like DST" argument. Farmer's schedules are dictated by the sun not the time and the sun changes continuously year round. If the argument is about commercial coordination that follows the same logic of being difficult regardless given constantly sh…

DST was never about farmers, it was to conserve energy for the war effort. Farmers also aren't punching a clock at an office. They can start and end work when they want, based on the weather and daylight that suits the work.

If you have animals you are up with the sun, nothing about when you want to work.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#35

Post by encrypted_bird »

Something I genuinely don't understand: everyone is saying that with DST, the sun rises later in the day. But as someone who doesn't work first shift and regularly goes to bed anytime between 04:00 and 06:00, I can tell you with certainty that in the summer time (when DST is active), the sun always comes up *way* sooner. I typically despise DST because I always struggle to fall asleep due to the damned sun coming up right as I go to bed.

Meanwhile, in the winter, the sun typically doesn't start to rise until closer to 08:00.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#36

Post by cameldrv »

slowin wrote: post #31
cameldrv wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people also prefer to wake up a bit after the sun rises. Daylight Savings approximates having the sun come up at the same time each day. People do not want to wake up in the dark.

If you wake up in the dark you are ensured to use the maximum amount of daylight possible. You also have the added benefit of being able to sleep until you need to get up instead of being woken up early by the sun.

Most people just go to sleep at a time such that they get enough sleep and they get up some time after sunrise. Our bodies naturally wake up with the sun. The modern clock defined world messes with our biology, and daylight savings helps correct this mismatch. Before people had clocks or times they had to show up to work, they would just get up with the sun.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#37

Post by [deleted] »

cameldrv wrote: post #30
kixiQu wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is better is ultimately subjective Most folks subjectively prefer having light after work because that's when it's more fun to do stuff. Unfortunately, the health impacts are (objectively!) worse under permanent daylight saving time. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7954020/ https://www.ama-assn.org/public-health/prevention-wellness/s... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6436388/ (I've heard th…

Most people also prefer to wake up a bit after the sun rises. Daylight Savings approximates having the sun come up at the same time each day. People do not want to wake up in the dark.

[deleted]

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#38

Post by marssaxman »

Jtsummers wrote: post #18
marssaxman wrote: post #14

I'm glad we're agreed that changing the clocks twice a year is a bad idea, but I don't understand why we should abandon Daylight Savings Time by adopting it permanently. What's so wrong with Standard Time? Oh, well: whether we put the clocks back or leave them permanently off-by-one, either is better than changing them around over and over.

The reason for permanent daylight savings (versus permanent standard) is to provide for later sunsets in the winter. By clock time, the sun would be rising later (after 8am in many places) but setting later as well giving people some late afternoon or evening sun. Which is better is ultimately subjective, you get short days in the winter regardless when you live far enough north. The late sunrise can be more dangerou…

I do live far enough north, which is probably part of the reason "daylight savings" strikes me as a bit silly: no arrangement of clocks can work around the fact that there's not enough sunlight for all we want to do in a winter day. Both getting up before dawn and leaving work after sunset are undesirable, but during midwinter you can't avoid either one. I figure you might as well just learn to deal with the darkness, and if you can't, move south until you have enough daylight you don't need to "save" it!

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#39

Post by kgwxd »

marssaxman wrote: post #14

I'm glad we're agreed that changing the clocks twice a year is a bad idea, but I don't understand why we should abandon Daylight Savings Time by adopting it permanently. What's so wrong with Standard Time? Oh, well: whether we put the clocks back or leave them permanently off-by-one, either is better than changing them around over and over.

We're not agreed. In a few years, we're gonna be. For a while.

Re: House passes bill to enact year-round Daylight Saving Time across the country

#40

Post by [deleted] »

cameldrv wrote: post #36
slowin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wake up in the dark you are ensured to use the maximum amount of daylight possible. You also have the added benefit of being able to sleep until you need to get up instead of being woken up early by the sun.

Most people just go to sleep at a time such that they get enough sleep and they get up some time after sunrise. Our bodies naturally wake up with the sun. The modern clock defined world messes with our biology, and daylight savings helps correct this mismatch. Before people had clocks or times they had to show up to work, they would just get up with the sun.

[deleted]
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