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Demis Hassabis has a plan to harness AI safely

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Re: Demis Hassabis has a plan to harness AI safely

#171

Post by bloppe »

overgard wrote: post #167
Marha01 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should AI make it worse? Can you point to any other important technology that historically made people in poor countries even poorer? Technological progress generally lifts people from poverty in the long run. There could be issues caused by disruption of established systems in the short term, though.

Uh, I think threatening the work of a large swath of humanity would make a lot of people poor? The rich historically have never shared the wealth until they're forced to. Just as an example (ironically from google!): "Google co-founder Sergey Brin has spent $82 million to oppose California's proposed wealth tax." This is a man that has more money that he could ever hope to possibly spend, and he's spending an absurd…

I support progressive income tax and very high capital gains tax. I do not support wealth tax. There are very sound economic and technical arguments against wealth taxes. You can oppose the wealth tax proposal while supporting higher taxes for the rich.

Sergei's wealth is mostly tied up in Google stock that has appreciated a lot. A higher capital gains tax would soak him without unduly distorting the economy and incentivizing capital flight out of CA.

Re: Demis Hassabis has a plan to harness AI safely

#172

Post by seltzered_ »

Marha01 wrote: post #25
f6v wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what sorts of new economic models will be needed to help everyone thrive in a post-scarcity world What sort of new economic models did we come up with to help everyone thrive in a post-X world? Like, food production is really a solved technical problem. We can feed anyone on the planet if we wanted to. Another example: we could put everyone who's homeless into some sort of a house. Have we done that yet?

Food production is indeed a solved problem in most countries (we are almost post-scarcity when it comes to food), which is why obesity is a much bigger issue than hunger today. Hunger is present pretty much only in conflict zones. I fully expect such issues in conflict zones, even in AI post-scarcity world. Housing is definitely not post-scarcity today, building a house is still very expensive, not to mention the lim…

I recommend doing some reading about the inputs modern agriculture depends on (e.g. chemical fertilizer) then thinking about the issues they're associated with beyond an anthropocentic frame (e.g. ocean dead zones).

Re: Demis Hassabis has a plan to harness AI safely

#174

Post by bloppe »

tavavex wrote: post #135
SirHackalot wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's also a need to consider the rights that this new intelligence should have A generally intelligent being held as captive inside of a GPU, and forced to code for us is, indeed, just a “slave.” We already have the word for this. No two ways about it. Whether it’s silicon-based or carbon-based, AGI is AGI. As for what might happen to our civilization, Star Trek TNG episode 17 of season 1 provides a very good gl…

Your argument assumes that AGI, whatever it might be, will definitely be very humanlike, but why? Slavery is about living beings because it's an outcome of human relationships that are driven by our biology. Our aging, the capacity to feel pain, the thirst for power over others. All driven by what we are. Do you think that any equal intelligence must necessarily adhere to the same rules? What if AGI isn't an 'entity'…

Very agree.

I think people can mostly agree on a definition for intelligence that boils down to an ability to model the world and predict outcomes. An if/else statement can be considered somewhat intelligent.

People tend to conflate that with consciousness / sentience, which are much harder concepts to nail down.

But ya, if we are able to create artificial consciousness, we would need so much training to overcome our natural tendency to anthropomorphize it and assume it must be like us. It would probably be nothing like us. If it were to develop concepts of "good" and "bad" at all, they would be completely divorced from common animal understanding developed over millions of years of natural selection. A survival instinct is irrelevant when you're backed up to Google Drive. And so much of our complex behavior stems from that survival instinct: the need for social connection, the need for freedom, etc. are all things that simply increase our chances of procreation.

That said, I think we probably won't actually invent anything convincingly conscious until we functionally digitize a complete animal brain. OpenWorm is trying to do this with C. elegans, but so far has not really gotten close. It's not crazy to think we may eventually get it working, though. Future supercomputers might be able to scan an actual human brain and then simulate the entire thing at the molecular level accurately. At that point, it would be hard to argue that it's not conscious, although it might not be considered artificial.

Re: Demis Hassabis has a plan to harness AI safely

#175

Post by [deleted] »

cornholio wrote: post #156
xyzzy123 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food is allocated using a variety of mechanisms in peaceful first world countries, primarily money but also via government assistance, kinship, friendship, community, etc. At any given time many people have problems with one or more of those systems. Money is easy to run out of because it's used for everything, the government can be slow and difficult, relationships can fray, people can be isolated, etc. Food banks e…

It's circular to say "it's an allocation problem". Yes, that's the entire point: we're post-scarcity on food supply and yet, as a species, we can't guarantee the allocation of a livable baseline to every person. So, it's reasonable the same "allocation problem" will plague the AI economy: some will "thrive" and get to control the output of the auto-factory, some will get nothing.

[deleted]

Re: Demis Hassabis has a plan to harness AI safely

#177

Post by antonvs »

SirHackalot wrote: post #161
energy123 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conflating intelligence with qualia is quite the assumption. HN is really not a good place for serious philosophy discussions.

It’s not HN that’s the problem... Also please, tell me where is the right place for “serious” philosophical discussion. Would be glad to meet you in that forum and discuss. We don’t align on the definition of AGI. To me, AGI implies consciousness, it implies qualia. AGI is not well-defined, so there are varying definitions… My definition of AGI := an intelligent system with qualia. But qualia is entirely subjective,…

> To me, AGI implies consciousness, it implies qualia.

I don't see why. We already have a pretty good example of intelligence without consciousness (presumably): LLMs.

Why should a more general kind of intelligence imply consciousness?

Re: Demis Hassabis has a plan to harness AI safely

#178

Post by tonetheman »

Marha01 wrote: post #25
f6v wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what sorts of new economic models will be needed to help everyone thrive in a post-scarcity world What sort of new economic models did we come up with to help everyone thrive in a post-X world? Like, food production is really a solved technical problem. We can feed anyone on the planet if we wanted to. Another example: we could put everyone who's homeless into some sort of a house. Have we done that yet?

Food production is indeed a solved problem in most countries (we are almost post-scarcity when it comes to food), which is why obesity is a much bigger issue than hunger today. Hunger is present pretty much only in conflict zones. I fully expect such issues in conflict zones, even in AI post-scarcity world. Housing is definitely not post-scarcity today, building a house is still very expensive, not to mention the lim…

[dead]

Re: Demis Hassabis has a plan to harness AI safely

#179

Post by SirHackalot »

antonvs wrote: post #177
SirHackalot wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not HN that’s the problem... Also please, tell me where is the right place for “serious” philosophical discussion. Would be glad to meet you in that forum and discuss. We don’t align on the definition of AGI. To me, AGI implies consciousness, it implies qualia. AGI is not well-defined, so there are varying definitions… My definition of AGI := an intelligent system with qualia. But qualia is entirely subjective,…

> To me, AGI implies consciousness, it implies qualia. I don't see why. We already have a pretty good example of intelligence without consciousness (presumably): LLMs. Why should a more general kind of intelligence imply consciousness?

I’m saying imagine something like Data from Star Trek, something that defies human explanation. Does he have quaila? The humans who work with him everyday seem to think so. LLMs currently are humonculi, if even that. They’re not even that. I’m definitely not saying your LLM is your slave.

Re: Demis Hassabis has a plan to harness AI safely

#180

Post by antonvs »

ponector wrote: post #127
noelwelsh wrote: post #3

The premise is "Artificial General Intelligence (AGI), a system that exhibits all the cognitive capabilities the brain has, is probably only a few short years away". If this is true, establishing an institution to ensure things like "publishing model cards with technical details, maintaining strong internal cybersecurity, vetting key personnel, and providing sufficient resourcing for safety and security research" is…

Both AGI and nuclear fusion are a few short years away.

For commercially viable fusion energy production, you can make a strong case that it's not possible in principle.

It's more difficult to make that case for AGI.

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