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Punch yourself in the face with reality

adi.bio

81–90 of 139 posts

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#81
post #68

> Who can punch themselves in the face with reality the most? This is who will win in the age of AI. Reminds me of a politician in India who would ask elders in his family to slap him hard before he starts out on the election campaigns. He says that the slaps are meant to keep him alert and honest.

Pain is a powerful teacher. I have grown the most when I hurt.

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#82
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when a mistake is deadly? Should we remove all safety systems so we can deal with the consequences? The number of mistakes you can make is infinite in comparison to the number of correct choices you can make. Since you don't have infinite lives and time there must be some manner of problem space reduction to ensure you get anything done. Luckily for us humans evolution has spend quadrillions of hours doing just t…

This is a good time to point out that slippery slope is a fallacy. Saying, "Experiencing some friction is good for building character" is not equivalent to saying "We should demolish all technology and force babies to survive on their own in the woods." That the extreme position is wrong does not strictly imply that the moderate position is too.

There being a more extreme position that is wrong, doesn't mean that a supposedly moderate position isn't extreme. See: Overton window.

This is the particular problem with deciding a position, it's all shades of grey.

200 years ago a good number of humans thought that owning other humans was a-ok. Today that's mostly not true. In 200 years it's likely the vast majority of humanity will look at eating meat and owning pets at the same level of horror. Which is the extreme position? Which is the moderate?

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#83
post #79
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> evolution has spend quadrillions of hours doing just that Magnitude pedantery incoming: 1 billion years is "only" about 10 trillion hours.

Thank goodness it was only one bacteria doing all that evolving! Think of combined manpower. If you have 2 people working an 8 hour shift you've spent 16 hours. /Pedantry crisis averted.

Oh good, that does make me rest easier. Though technically the units should be man-hours (or bacterium-hours?). Now this makes me wonder how many life-hours there have been...looks like ^40 'beings' over all time[0], and ^43 being-hours total.

Fun math!

[0]Crockford et al. (2023) estimate about 10^30 cells exist today, and between 10^39 and 10^40 cells have ever existed on Earth.

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#84
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how much you don't believe there is a tiger behind the bush. The tiger really believes you are going to be tasty.

So you build a machine that kills all tigers and now you don't have to worry about belief. The problem with objective reality is 1. it changes. 2. it can be different for different people in different places. If I live in rural India, there is probably not a tiger behind the bush. If I live in downtown Chicago there is almost certainly not a tiger behind the bush. This leads to the hard problem of probabilistic think…

Conscious probabilistic thinking is perhaps more demanding of energy. But all animals engage in subconscious probabilistic thinking. That gut feeling you have for example is your inner bayesian logic refined from millions of years of natural selection. The child being afraid of the dark is demonstrating deeply ingrained probabilistic thinking and assessing survival risk in real time. The higher order abstractions modern language and modern structured society saddles upon us often get in the way of how our mind actually works, as they are far younger than the mind. Poke a bug with a stick: it runs away. Poke a lizard with a stick: it runs away. Poke a human with a stick: it runs away. This example is an ancient survival mechanism all shared by the common ancestor of the human, the lizard, and the bug, which is probably half a billion years old or more. And we won't necessarily get any better with the demands of modern language and society either, as these are under far weaker selection pressures (if any) than these other highly conserved behaviors.

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#85
post #73
post #30

I spent multiple 5-hour sessions spec-ing my climbing app with AI, clarifying interactions, algorithm, workflow etc. It ended up a frankenstein that I didn't recognise or know how each part interact with each other. Command line were a mess, different commands doing the same thing, with similar but redundant arguments. Everything looks kind of doing what I intended but overly convoluted and nothing really works. Real…

I think the mistake there was the 5 hour session specing the app. It's so hard to know what you want before you see it, so optimize towards seeing it as soon as possible. That's what I thought the article was going to be about based off the title. Once you have something concrete you can iterate on the prototype until it's a mess. But, hopefully, in that time you got closer to figuring out what you want. And even if…

One of the most foundational insights I’ve ever had in IT is clients don’t know what they want until you shove it in their face. And only then do they say no, no, no, change this, this and that.

Same story as building a house. There’s so many unknowns.

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#86
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your overall sentiment, although maybe the article and this sentiment more generally are going a little bit overboard with the skepticism/negativity. It is a little alarming the way people treat AI as another human relationship, yes. But AI is also a pretty useful research partner and rubber duck for ideas so long as you know going into it that it’s going to have a bias toward agreeing with you. This sit…

> It’s not going to build my character or build my growth and meaning to buy the wrong thing from an online store. dealing with the consequences of my mistakes sounds like growth to me

Yes but what would they learn from their mistake?

"I should run my purchase decisions past an AI in the future."

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#87
post #85
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the mistake there was the 5 hour session specing the app. It's so hard to know what you want before you see it, so optimize towards seeing it as soon as possible. That's what I thought the article was going to be about based off the title. Once you have something concrete you can iterate on the prototype until it's a mess. But, hopefully, in that time you got closer to figuring out what you want. And even if…

One of the most foundational insights I’ve ever had in IT is clients don’t know what they want until you shove it in their face. And only then do they say no, no, no, change this, this and that. Same story as building a house. There’s so many unknowns.

it's cunningham's law where the fast LLM generated iteration is the confidently wrong answer that the clients will correct

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like an absolute dream for corporate execs who don't know anything about development, see a taped-together prototype built in a day, and think to themselves "Wow, we're 90% done... we could almost ship that!!"

Well, from my experience, if the AI dev is ill intended, he can just say nothing then the exec will go "we can ship now as it is!"

nobody throws a prototype so this will happen

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#89
post #63
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when a mistake is deadly? Should we remove all safety systems so we can deal with the consequences? The number of mistakes you can make is infinite in comparison to the number of correct choices you can make. Since you don't have infinite lives and time there must be some manner of problem space reduction to ensure you get anything done. Luckily for us humans evolution has spend quadrillions of hours doing just t…

> evolution has spend quadrillions of hours doing just that Magnitude pedantery incoming: 1 billion years is "only" about 10 trillion hours.

Yeah, but it would be more-or-less in parallel, spread over however many organisms

Re: Punch yourself in the face with reality

#90
While it's true that unsupervised AIs build a heap of trash, I have to admit, it doesn't look much worse than some of the code I saw powering products that sold for millions.

The only thing that changed is the scale.

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