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New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

reuters.com

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Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#191

Post by overfeed »

ianm218 wrote: post #123
ASinclair wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would people move to jurisdictions that are building AI datacenters? It seems like people would move away from them.

People move towards places with growing economic opportunities. New York heavily restricts construction and infrastructure projects of all kinds. The tech and finance elite will stay here but normal people who are trying to make a decent living in construction and similar trades will end up following opportunities. NYC population is declining after all [1] largely because the city would rather treat housing as a scar…

> People move towards places with growing economic opportunities.

Fleeting economic opportunities that don't survive the construction phase - a few months most. No one will move from New York to Texas for a chance to be one of the 17 long-term staff at a data center: no one wants to be a data center night man that badly.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#192

Post by xyst »

evantbyrne wrote: post #107

Some guy floated the idea of putting in a small datacenter in the nearby city and asked for public comment. The next town hall had a huge turnout and multiple people got kicked out for rushing the podium. Meanwhile, people are also protesting and suing to try and stop the nearby solar farm construction. What I'm wondering is why can't we have this level of enthusiasm for actual environmental reform and the transition…

> What I'm wondering is why can't we have this level of enthusiasm for actual environmental reform and the transition to clean energy?

_O&G industry has entered the chat_

O&G industry is the answer to your question. They have the motive to ensure that their energy production method is dominant and have the funds to send lobbyists to convince/pay off lawmakers/politicians to advance their mission.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#193

Post by newguy1000 »

inigyou wrote: post #185
ianm218 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is huge amounts of construction costs on these things and electrical work as well. The general rule is 50% or more of construction in NYC goes toward labor, so that drives up wages for local talent. Obviously any given project is temporary but it seems like there will be a multi year build out so lots of projects. There is then the secondary effect of skilled labor like machining and manufacturing parts for the…

And then afterwards the electricity gets shut off to everyone who isn't a data center? That's what Georgia is threatening right now.

Do you ACTUALLY think that's a possibility? It's silly

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#194

Post by charcircuit »

nekusar wrote: post #72
buellerbueller wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The real question is "why do rates go up with a data center?" That answer is interesting. Its cause in most states, if a company formally requests a power hookup, the power company MUST comply. Thus entails in upgrading substations, transformers, supply lines, etc. And all those upgrades are borne by the citizens in that region. That's why you bill goes up, cause datacenter upgrades dump on the public their externali…

If you want fiber connected to your building you have to pay for the infra to be upgraded. Passing on the cost to other people does not have to happen (unless there is a law).

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#195

Post by cwmma »

beAbU wrote: post #164
whartung wrote: post #97

How are (can) datacenters be taxed? Mind, I don't know, but normally you put in a business, or factory, etc. the state can tax the economic output of the factory. The factory builds things, sells things, they tax the sales of those things. Local employees get salaries that can be taxed, etc. Of course, property taxes on the land and improvements. But how does that work with a datacenter? If I pay $5 for an EC2 instan…

You tax the revenue that the entity that owns the datacentre generates, like any other business. Am I missing something?

First off business are taxed on profits not revenues, so a money losing business doesn't pay taxes.

Second if there is something that causes undesirable side effects (like a data center) you want to tax that activity specifically so the Corp with 8 data centers pays more then the Corp with 1.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#196

Post by overfeed »

orangedog wrote: post #174
overfeed wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The previous failure was in 2011, and didn't happen again until a decade later. The root cause hasn't been resolved since 2021: the demand and weather conditions simply haven't recurred since.

Yes, it's just tiring to hear the same meme putdowns about how this Winter we're all going to suffer when we probably have less brownouts etc than a lot of other places. I remember 2011 but I didn't actually have any issues with a power failure it was just extremely icy. These are freak weather events, generally the grid holds up fine. I'm not saying we don't have issues but it is kind o foverblown.

> I didn't actually have any issues with a power failure it was just extremely icy.

Maybe ask someone who lost power - or lost a loved one - and find out if they are as sanguine about the icy conditions. People died. "It's not a big deal since I wasn't personally affected" isn't a scalable position, but it is a quintessentially Texan attitude.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#197

Post by charcircuit »

whartung wrote: post #97

How are (can) datacenters be taxed? Mind, I don't know, but normally you put in a business, or factory, etc. the state can tax the economic output of the factory. The factory builds things, sells things, they tax the sales of those things. Local employees get salaries that can be taxed, etc. Of course, property taxes on the land and improvements. But how does that work with a datacenter? If I pay $5 for an EC2 instan…

They shouldn't. It's such a toxic view that because something is successful that it justifies stealing money from them.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#199

Post by inigyou »

newguy1000 wrote: post #193
inigyou wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then afterwards the electricity gets shut off to everyone who isn't a data center? That's what Georgia is threatening right now.

Do you ACTUALLY think that's a possibility? It's silly

Of course I think it's a possibility that power companies follow through on their 1-year plans. Why wouldn't I?

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#200

Post by newaccountman2 »

ecshafer wrote: post #182
newaccountman2 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NYC population is declining after all [1] largely because the city would rather treat housing as a scarce resource for them to divy up than something to increase the supply of. The Mayor is literally implementing stuff to build more affordable housing. I agree that ultimately a lot less regulation is needed to make it easier to simply build, but your take on it belongs in a New York Post editorial. It's not serious…

The mayor of NYC froze rent... rent controls are the opposite of building more affordable housing, since it disincentivizes building and renting units.

That's not the only thing he has done. There are also initiatives to actually build it, which I agree is the correct response over rent control (which is more of a bandaid, and a bad one at that).

I don't think rent controls disincentivize building more because not all buildings can be subject thereto.

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