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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

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Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#211

Post by vrganj »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #198
vrganj wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another European, I agree with GP. I don't fully trust my government. But I definitely trust it more than any American tech company. I can also vote out my government. I can't do that for Big Tech.

> I can also vote out my government. You can't. Not if you're in the minority. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. You what you as an individual most certainly can do is stop using Roblox. Not ideal, but way easier than moving to a new country.

> Not if you're in the minority. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny.

> you as an individual

I understand. Such is living in a society. No man is an island.

> Not ideal, but way easier than moving to a new country.

I've moved countries five times. I still haven't been able to get rid of my dependencies on Big Tech.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#212

Post by monksy »

skrebbel wrote: post #30

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

It's isreali as well: https://www.404media.co/id-verification-service-for-tiktok-u...

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#213

Post by vrganj »

joe_mamba wrote: post #197
vrganj wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another European, I agree with GP. I don't fully trust my government. But I definitely trust it more than any American tech company. I can also vote out my government. I can't do that for Big Tech.

[flagged]

The EU pricks that pushed Chat Control is... American oligarch Ashton Kutcher.

https://edri.org/our-work/how-a-hollywood-star-lobbies-the-e...

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#214

Post by brabel »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #198
vrganj wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another European, I agree with GP. I don't fully trust my government. But I definitely trust it more than any American tech company. I can also vote out my government. I can't do that for Big Tech.

> I can also vote out my government. You can't. Not if you're in the minority. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. You what you as an individual most certainly can do is stop using Roblox. Not ideal, but way easier than moving to a new country.

Tyranny of the majority is ... democracy?!

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#215

Post by vrganj »

pluralmonad wrote: post #201
vrganj wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another European, I agree with GP. I don't fully trust my government. But I definitely trust it more than any American tech company. I can also vote out my government. I can't do that for Big Tech.

That seems backwards to me. You can choose to personally not do business with whatever big tech corp you dislike. Men with guns will show up at your house if you stop "doing business" with the regional government.

I can choose to move (and I have!), I can't practically quit my dependency on tech.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#216

Post by zeta0134 »

alistairSH wrote: post #124
zeta0134 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is generally my opinion, and goodness it's swung around quite a bit. This entire debate feels like it should be solved by adequate parental controls. To the extent that it matters, I think the missing link here is "primary education should support a parent's intent to limit unrestricted internet access for their children." That is, during school activities where internet use is unavoidable, require supervision.…

You think most of the unsupervised internet time is happening at school? I mean, maybe it is, but that's an assertion I haven't seen before.

Truthfully, I don't know! Especially for younger kids though, there's usually at least an adult in the room, right? Even when they're visiting a friend, the other parent is there to step in and check on them occasionally?

I guess once you hand your teenager a smart phone (and all their friends have one too!) all bets are off. That's new, and wasn't a thing when I grew up. We were rural and on the tail end of dial-up, so I couldn't get online at home without someone hearing the modem. That sure limited my attempts to do so without permission!

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#217

Post by Ajedi32 »

brabel wrote: post #214
Ajedi32 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can also vote out my government. You can't. Not if you're in the minority. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. You what you as an individual most certainly can do is stop using Roblox. Not ideal, but way easier than moving to a new country.

Tyranny of the majority is ... democracy?!

Unrestrained democracy, yes. Tyranny.

People need to understand that having a majority opinion does not inherently give you the right to impose that opinion on everyone else. Such impositions must be done with extreme hesitancy and restraint.

That's why many democratic countries have a constitution which prevents the government from restricting certain individual rights even in the face of popular opinion. But ultimately, the constitution is just a piece of paper. If people are determined to impose their will on others, it can only do so much.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#218

Post by skybrian »

vrganj wrote: post #191
sva_ wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that is one way to manufacture consent.

As another European, I agree with GP. I don't fully trust my government. But I definitely trust it more than any American tech company. I can also vote out my government. I can't do that for Big Tech.

Things look different if you’re comparing an American tech company to an American government.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#219

Post by slopinthebag »

vrganj wrote: post #211
Ajedi32 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can also vote out my government. You can't. Not if you're in the minority. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. You what you as an individual most certainly can do is stop using Roblox. Not ideal, but way easier than moving to a new country.

> Not if you're in the minority. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. > you as an individual I understand. Such is living in a society. No man is an island. > Not ideal, but way easier than moving to a new country. I've moved countries five times. I still haven't been able to get rid of my dependencies on Big Tech.

Most people can't move anywhere because getting citizenship is difficult.

Meanwhile, all you need to do to get rid of a dependency on big tech is to log off.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#220

Post by vrganj »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #217
brabel wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tyranny of the majority is ... democracy?!

Unrestrained democracy, yes. Tyranny. People need to understand that having a majority opinion does not inherently give you the right to impose that opinion on everyone else. Such impositions must be done with extreme hesitancy and restraint. That's why many democratic countries have a constitution which prevents the government from restricting certain individual rights even in the face of popular opinion. But ultima…

Everything you do affects others, unless you live in a cave in the mountains somewhere. Part of the reality of living in a society is constantly negotiating what is and isn't acceptable.

Democracy is the most fair way of doing so.

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