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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

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171–180 of 457 posts

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You already can't do any of these things without some kind of governmental issued ID which already has your birthdate on it. Do you have to present this ID for every purchase you make or every website you visit? Will it be stored and processed by every shop you enter? If not, how is this relevant here? Currently, the personal data exists but is not accessed by anyone unless it is really required. And even then, the…

> Do you have to present this ID for every purchase you make or every website you visit? Basically yes, your mobile connection is attached to a name, your landline is attached to a name, your adresse too, the card you use to pay online too.

Websites do not have access to any of these, do they?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have had the need to prove age for hundreds of years. To buy alcohol. To drive a car. To vote. We depend on government-issued documents to do this. Not sure why anyone would really expect this to change just because it's online now.

Older systems were imperfect and were understood to be. I've meet veterans who joined the Navy at 14 or 16. I've met many College students who can pass as old enough to buy alcohol, especially with a fake id. Dead people are sometimes registered to vote. We know this and have systems to try to catch these exceptions. But cellphone access is different; it's assumed to be perfect, but it's increasingly being moderated…

This year, an octogenarian friend got locked out of his android phone permanently. He had never had a PIN on his Samsung phone.

It started when he signed up at a new bank, giving them his phone number. Somehow the bank enrolled his in their online banking system, which notified Samsung, who remotely initiated the "let's give your phone a pin" flow, presumably to protect him during online banking. (This happened without his knowledge -- he had not installed the bank's phone app.)

Later that day, when his phone went into a modal "let's setup a pin" screen, he panicked, assuming an attacker had gained control of his phone, since this was not something he initiated. No button would let him exit the screen, so he powered it down. Now, when he powers it up, it demands a pin, but he doesn't know what pin that would be. The only way to get the phone back would be to factory reset it, meaning he'd be wiping his data. He had the money to replace his phone, but that may not be true of every citizen, especially at his age.

People assume digital auth systems are perfect. But you don't hear from consumers who can't get online to tell you "I've lost access."

I've shared some other similar stories: a widow who got banned for life from facebook within minutes of making an account from an apple device on a consumer ISP with her real cell phone number.

A coworker attempted to sell his son's sporting goods on facebook marketplace and was banned for life with no appeal because AI thought it was "weapons."

Some high school students each made a gmail address from the same laptop one afternoon, only to be banned the next day. Each supplied their own cellphone number, but the accounts got shut down, presumably because multiple accounts were being created from the same device too rapidly.

AI moderation means there are a ton of unwritten rules, and private companies will keep you out of their platforms if you break them. That's fine, but it means governments have no business serving their citizens from these exclusive platforms.

> e signed up at a new bank, giving them his phone number. Somehow

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#173
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government issued versus corporate issued age verification is a false dichotomy. There are other options, such as refusing games that require them. (Yes, we do have a teen, and yes we did exactly that with Roblox.)

Fwiw we did that with Roblox too, but I hate it because Roblox Studio was a pretty damn fun collaborative gamedev experience. I mean his classmates argue with their parents about whether they can install TikTok (and most parents lose). Meanwhile I’m denying my son the right to make a game together with a friend. It’s so creative and so educative and I’m saying no to it. It sucks and I hate Roblox for making something…

There's plenty of ways to make games outside of Roblox. Maybe they could sit down together and work through some Löve2D or Godot tutorials? No one can take that away arbitrarily

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have to present this ID for every purchase you make or every website you visit? Basically yes, your mobile connection is attached to a name, your landline is attached to a name, your adresse too, the card you use to pay online too.

Websites do not have access to any of these, do they?

Well yeah, and that's why we use a third party app instead of having each website implement their own half assed solutions. That's like the entire point of this thing...

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"only if you choose to share your personal data with either Google or Apple"?

How is that different from having a banking app installed? Or a government ID app?

You can survive and be exist in society without both.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#176
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't be able to see a doctor when you're sick. You won't be able to open a bank account to receive your salary. You won't be able to buy train or plane tickets. My point is I am most worried that these kind of "digital verification" type things most impact actual necessities. The social media I couldn't care less about. "I just won't use it" isn't really a solution.

You already can't do any of these things without some kind of governmental issued ID which already has your birthdate on it. idk why people are so scared of it, do you really believe they don't know what you do on your personal internet connection linked to your name and payment data ? Like yeah sure if you pay everything in cash and never use internet OK that's a big problem, but for the average HN shitposter who's…

> do you really believe they don't know what you do on your personal internet connection linked to your name and payment data?

Many people in the Western Europe used, until very recently, prepaid anonymous mobile data cards that they recharged monthly with charging vouchers paid for in cash.

All this ended in the last 5 - 10 years. The U.S.-American corporate glass citizen slave mentality is actually a little tad bit new here, thus the outrage.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#177

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

> Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”

My son had a similar "making games" interests and I just showed him the Godot engine. Roblox bosses are doing you a favor. Act now :D

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't get me wrong. I agree roblox is a very shady operation, but that does not erase the fact that their platform is unmatched when it comes to letting kids make games. Ok, well then, toss your hands in the air and throw away all your principles then, I suppose.

how is the view in your ivory tower?

Pretty much the same as my view before roblox even existed, which is not bad.

How is the view in your FOMO dungeon?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You already can't do any of these things without some kind of governmental issued ID which already has your birthdate on it. Do you have to present this ID for every purchase you make or every website you visit? Will it be stored and processed by every shop you enter? If not, how is this relevant here? Currently, the personal data exists but is not accessed by anyone unless it is really required. And even then, the…

> Do you have to present this ID for every purchase you make or every website you visit? Basically yes, your mobile connection is attached to a name, your landline is attached to a name, your adresse too, the card you use to pay online too.

That is totally incorrect for many parts of Europe. Pre-paid anonymous sim cards were used by the majority of mobile users until very recently.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#180

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

What you’re proposing works only if the government is always trustworthy and abiding by the rules. But there has been cases that ICE agents in US was able to track down people from their social media posts and in the past Nazis used the address registration lists to track down Jews for deportation to concentration camps. We don’t know what EU would become in 5 to 10 years in the future, and I would rather not have an…

They have this information anyway if you have an EU passport or an identity card. The government app allows you to share selected properties of these documents with third parties.
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