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Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

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Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#151

Post by njarboe »

zerobees wrote: post #40

I don't know if this is a good framing. "Too much" is subjective, and every heavy AI user will assert that they're just unlocking their potential, that calculators didn't make us dumber, etc. But to latch onto the calculator argument: if you outsource adding numbers to a calculator, you're still you. On the flip side, if you use an LLM do most of your thinking, what's left? We have people here who use LLMs to raise t…

The same was probably said when machines started making furniture, cloth, harvesting wheat, etc. A desk made custom by a human to your specs is cool, beautiful, and life giving for both involved. And will cost $10-$50k. Maybe with the AIs and robots doing the grunt work, humans could get back to building things for each other. That would be great but I'm not sure what percentage of people are interested in that though.

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#152

Post by ElProlactin »

elmer2 wrote: post #105
zerobees wrote: post #40

I don't know if this is a good framing. "Too much" is subjective, and every heavy AI user will assert that they're just unlocking their potential, that calculators didn't make us dumber, etc. But to latch onto the calculator argument: if you outsource adding numbers to a calculator, you're still you. On the flip side, if you use an LLM do most of your thinking, what's left? We have people here who use LLMs to raise t…

"Many LLM maximalists say they use the tech to learn new things, but to what effect? Are you going to apply that knowledge of physics or computer science yourself, or will you just prompt the LLM again?" Many of the LLM maximalists I know don't have the skills or knowledge to excel in technology and need to use LLMs to do their job. It's seen as a cheat code to get work done. As an example, A person I went to high sc…

Perhaps you underestimated the person you went to high school with? The fact he or she "could barely figure out how to set up a Drupal site a few years ago" doesn't mean much. Lots of people are capable of immense progress when they apply themselves.

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#153

Post by sodapopcan »

runarberg wrote: post #102
slibhb wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my mind, it's pretty simple: I'm a human, LLMs are not. If a human writes a novel, it's inherently worth more. While I appreciate you laying it out so plainly, I disagree. A novel is a bunch of words and I don't care if they were written by one person, five, an AI, or infinite monkeys on typewriters. What's valuable in a novel (or a poem) is in the words.

You do care though. You may not think you care but you absolutely do. If somebody tells you that in the Hood canal west of Seattle, there is a population of endangered tree octopuses, who are unique among octopuses in that they climb up to land and lay their eggs under fallen tree trunks in old growth forests, and that they are now endangered because road construction is cutting their access to the old growth forests…

> You do care though. You may not think you care but you absolutely do.

This is something I have a lot of trouble explaining and generally don't try to because I've never actually studied this or anything. So I can only go from my 45 years experiencing of experiencing art along with others.

Of course if you are just putting on music to work to, this isn't going to matter much if at all, but...

Generally people do really seem to care about the person behind something they are experiencing. The simplest example I can give is one of those extremely well shot photos that very few people have taken from a sitting position of their feet dangling off a massive building. I would have a very hard time believing anyone claiming that such a photo wouldn't give them very different feelings if they knew it was a real person v not. Again, this is the simplest example I can think of but I think it goes much deeper with all sorts of art, ie, most people to some degree are attempting experiencing art through the person who created it whether they "know" it or not. This is evident when presented with something they don't like and say something like, "Who would make this?"

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#154

Post by ElProlactin »

MisterTea wrote: post #120
elmer2 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Many LLM maximalists say they use the tech to learn new things, but to what effect? Are you going to apply that knowledge of physics or computer science yourself, or will you just prompt the LLM again?" Many of the LLM maximalists I know don't have the skills or knowledge to excel in technology and need to use LLMs to do their job. It's seen as a cheat code to get work done. As an example, A person I went to high sc…

> At some point, it will be impossible to tell the difference. Many people already can't tell if something was generated by AI. So what if its indistinguishable - its not a product of human intellect or effort. I feel there is a large disconnect where people look at artful output such as music or writing as a thing no different than a box of paper clips. To them, "It's just there." They don't care how it got there, t…

If you knew how the modern music industry and local diners work, you might not be so impressed.

It's not all artisanal, made with love goodness just because human hands did it.

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#155

Post by sodapopcan »

horsawlarway wrote: post #112
Forgeties79 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care because it’s not personal, it’s not informed by lived experience, etc. It has no meaning. AI “novels” are just facsimiles of other people’s writings assembled in a way that appears new, but ultimately it’s just an approximation of a person writing a book. Their’s no author intent or context of any kind to consider. It removes core pillars of experiencing literature. I don’t want a mathematical approximation of…

while I understand this argument - I think it consistently falls down when compared to the types of content that are generally purchased and consumed. I'd argue that most folks get plenty of value from the content itself, entirely separate from the intent, context, or even existence of the author. I don't care about the motivations of the director to enjoy an action movie. I don't care about the life history of the a…

> I don't care about the motivations of the director to enjoy an action movie. I don't care about the life history of the author to enjoy a good fiction.

...and you don't need to know those things, that's insane. But you very likely are, even (not so) subconsciously, questioning some of these things.

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#156

Post by dismalaf »

zerobees wrote: post #40

I don't know if this is a good framing. "Too much" is subjective, and every heavy AI user will assert that they're just unlocking their potential, that calculators didn't make us dumber, etc. But to latch onto the calculator argument: if you outsource adding numbers to a calculator, you're still you. On the flip side, if you use an LLM do most of your thinking, what's left? We have people here who use LLMs to raise t…

> Many LLM maximalists say they use the tech to learn new things, but to what effect?

"Many book maximalists say they read books to learn new things, but to what effect?"

First we had verbal transmission, then books, then the Internet, now LLMs. And they all kind of do the same thing.

For me, the value of an LLM is it can take my imprecise query, scour its memory AND the Internet, and then return an answer (with citations if you ask) quicker than I can look for it "manually".

And I'm far from an LLM maximalist...

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#157

Post by OldMidnight »

Just like calculators became crutches for school children memorising their times tables and our phones contacts list a crutch for memorising phone numbers, I see AI becoming a crutch for many, in all the areas we seem important and humanity has spent years refining (communication, thinking, writing, etc)

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#158

Post by nadzzz »

nsxwolf wrote: post #8

Having a very dangerous AI standoff at work, where people are debating wether or not to use a particular connection pooling / threading strategy to fix a production issue, and everyone is unqualified to answer and is instead arguing what their agent said. They are just straight up admitting they don't know anything, and advocate fiercely for their agent's recommendation. No one cares, no one tries to stop this behavi…

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