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Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

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Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#111

Post by mrctte »

zerobees wrote: post #40

I don't know if this is a good framing. "Too much" is subjective, and every heavy AI user will assert that they're just unlocking their potential, that calculators didn't make us dumber, etc. But to latch onto the calculator argument: if you outsource adding numbers to a calculator, you're still you. On the flip side, if you use an LLM do most of your thinking, what's left? We have people here who use LLMs to raise t…

> I'm not good at lifting weights or running, so my thinking is the only thing I have

I'm not saying this to be snarky, but maybe it's time to work on lifting weights and running. The worth of a novel is, of course, subjective, but most people would judge it based on the entertainment value it provides and not how much human effort went into it. Hobbies like fitness (which don't have an output that's meant to be consumed) seem like a safer harbor in this new era.

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#112

Post by horsawlarway »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #101
slibhb wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my mind, it's pretty simple: I'm a human, LLMs are not. If a human writes a novel, it's inherently worth more. While I appreciate you laying it out so plainly, I disagree. A novel is a bunch of words and I don't care if they were written by one person, five, an AI, or infinite monkeys on typewriters. What's valuable in a novel (or a poem) is in the words.

I care because it’s not personal, it’s not informed by lived experience, etc. It has no meaning. AI “novels” are just facsimiles of other people’s writings assembled in a way that appears new, but ultimately it’s just an approximation of a person writing a book. Their’s no author intent or context of any kind to consider. It removes core pillars of experiencing literature. I don’t want a mathematical approximation of…

while I understand this argument - I think it consistently falls down when compared to the types of content that are generally purchased and consumed.

I'd argue that most folks get plenty of value from the content itself, entirely separate from the intent, context, or even existence of the author.

I don't care about the motivations of the director to enjoy an action movie. I don't care about the life history of the author to enjoy a good fiction.

I think there is (and should be) space for content where people care, but I'd suggest it's the fringes (ex - majority of music is production grade pop, not meaningful songs, majority of books sales are erotic fiction, etc).

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#113

Post by sebringj »

Our brains take time to ingest things and learn and using an AI tool to make decisions when taking in vast inputs of data requires then an overview of those decisions and understanding to some degree of care. If you don't take the time to go over these decisions and understand them and weigh them and course correct as needed, then you are offloading too much. You will become this approver buffer in between claude and nothing more if you don't have this methodical checking and understanding.

What is frightening is with something like neuralink that in a future hypothetical time would have very fast capability to keep informed and advised, you could be a zombie decision maker and nobody would really be able to tell. Even when you were pressed to why you made the decision, it's just another AI response, it's like a con artist or imposter dream scenario.

I noticed that atm, before these crazy hypotheticals potentially happen, the people that seem to take the time to understand things deeper are still way more valuable than those that just use tools more than not. Its obvious atm due to the lag in time and the way people respond in meetings, at least for now. :)

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#115

Post by [deleted] »

slibhb wrote: post #80
zerobees wrote: post #40

I don't know if this is a good framing. "Too much" is subjective, and every heavy AI user will assert that they're just unlocking their potential, that calculators didn't make us dumber, etc. But to latch onto the calculator argument: if you outsource adding numbers to a calculator, you're still you. On the flip side, if you use an LLM do most of your thinking, what's left? We have people here who use LLMs to raise t…

> In my mind, it's pretty simple: I'm a human, LLMs are not. If a human writes a novel, it's inherently worth more. While I appreciate you laying it out so plainly, I disagree. A novel is a bunch of words and I don't care if they were written by one person, five, an AI, or infinite monkeys on typewriters. What's valuable in a novel (or a poem) is in the words.

[deleted]

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#116

Post by recursive »

MSkill1 wrote: post #88
PapstJL4U wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>AI lets me offload things that I don't need to know and frees up my brain to push farther than I could before. How can you push your brain go farther than ever, when you don't use it for the basic task? Higher Math does not work without understanding "lower" Math, running long runs does not work without starting on shorter runs. Thinking about complicated staff will probly not work, if you can't think about the easy…

I agree that when you're building mathematical understanding, you have to do it brick by brick. But the fact of the matter is it's been decades since I did a long division problem by hand. AI lets me jump into areas that I would previously have had to spend a month studying before I could begin building - That's what I mean by it lets me reach farther, faster.

You don't always have to do division by hand. I would make the argument that it's probably good to do it occasionally. At least enough to remember how.

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#117

Post by hsb3 »

Wilsoniumite wrote: post #86
zerobees wrote: post #40

I don't know if this is a good framing. "Too much" is subjective, and every heavy AI user will assert that they're just unlocking their potential, that calculators didn't make us dumber, etc. But to latch onto the calculator argument: if you outsource adding numbers to a calculator, you're still you. On the flip side, if you use an LLM do most of your thinking, what's left? We have people here who use LLMs to raise t…

"What's your unique contribution to the world" is a good question, and I've been thinking about it a lot. One framing I very much like is thinking about the priceable versus unpriceable contributions of a person. As an example, your software engineering ability is priceable (it's your labor). Your value to your parents isn't priceable. The problem is, right now the default assumed value of the latter is 0. Our societ…

You guys have to look up where the concept of Dignity came from.

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#118

Post by al_borland »

zloy88 wrote: post #55
warshinder wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just so sycophantic though.

Lol, wdym. I like to prompt it that I want evidence, so when there is any new topic where I currently don't know how to tackle it myself, I ask that it does a research and give me evidence. So i can check the sources myself. Like I said, I let it spoon feed me. When I know upfront how to do anything, I just give all the instructions. But the OPs point was If we offload thinking too much, so that's why I was just thin…

I've found it present wrong, skewed, biased, or old information. In other cases, it seems to ignore the elephant in the room. I find all of these things problematic when trying to learn something new. The less I know about a subject, the more susceptible I am to being mislead.

When I bring these things up, it will apologize, tell me I'm right, and adjust. But what if I didn't know enough to question it? Approaching from the other angle, maybe I'm actually wrong and it's a sycophant, as mentioned, trying to please the user?

On the topics where I'm having to correct it, I probably shouldn't bother asking in the first place. On topics where I'm not correcting it, is it because the AI was right, or I just don't know enough to call it out? This kind of thing worries me about AI being leaned on more and more as a teacher.

Re: Are we offloading too much of our thinking to AI?

#120

Post by MisterTea »

elmer2 wrote: post #105
zerobees wrote: post #40

I don't know if this is a good framing. "Too much" is subjective, and every heavy AI user will assert that they're just unlocking their potential, that calculators didn't make us dumber, etc. But to latch onto the calculator argument: if you outsource adding numbers to a calculator, you're still you. On the flip side, if you use an LLM do most of your thinking, what's left? We have people here who use LLMs to raise t…

"Many LLM maximalists say they use the tech to learn new things, but to what effect? Are you going to apply that knowledge of physics or computer science yourself, or will you just prompt the LLM again?" Many of the LLM maximalists I know don't have the skills or knowledge to excel in technology and need to use LLMs to do their job. It's seen as a cheat code to get work done. As an example, A person I went to high sc…

> At some point, it will be impossible to tell the difference. Many people already can't tell if something was generated by AI.

So what if its indistinguishable - its not a product of human intellect or effort. I feel there is a large disconnect where people look at artful output such as music or writing as a thing no different than a box of paper clips. To them, "It's just there." They don't care how it got there, they just like the feeling they get from the consumption.

That's fast food thinking; It's engineered to be "tasty" in the sense that they put the right amount of chemicals into the food to tickle the right nerve endings. It's junk food that exists to turn a profit. Whereas even the local diner puts effort into its food and has a damn fine Greek menu and the best mozzarella sticks.

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