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Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

danq.me

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Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#251

Post by svachalek »

llm_nerd wrote: post #114
deadbabe wrote: post #84

The reason people want an 'App' instead of a website is purely marketing related. Apps are sexy and native, and have better distribution. Websites are old, crappy things where you can't always control exactly what the user is going to see very well, and sharing a slick URL isn't always easy.

By "marketing" do you mean "experience"? Because absolutely no one is marketing apps as being superior, but instead this is just the experience of users. There's a weird conspiratorial thing that people do about this whole topic that is so easily debunked. For instance "Apple wanted apps more than PWAs!". Android powers about 73% of the world's smartphones, yet PWAs are irrelevant on the platform. Web apps can be inc…

> Because absolutely no one is marketing apps as being superior, but instead this is just the experience of users.

I guess you haven't used the mobile web? Practically any website you use covers half the page with a banner saying don't use the website, the app is SOOO much better.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#253

Post by georgemcbay »

titanomachy wrote: post #246
jcmontx wrote: post #241

Something the author doesn't mention as a pro for the web is my favorite type of tech: browser extensions. I love web because I can basically customize pretty much everything to my needs. I have published a few of them in the last few years, and I have tens of them which I haven't published. I use them for tons of different things: * allowing only text tweets on X * blocking photos and videos on all Meta products * b…

It’s a pro for you (the user), but I’m sure Disney (or whoever made this app) cares very very little about this, or treats it as a negative.

> I’m sure Disney (or whoever made this app) cares very very little about this, or treats it as a negative.

Virtually every company will treat it as a negative as the first thing most users are going to do if you allow them 100% experience customization is remove all the ads.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#254

Post by rpdillon »

carlosjobim wrote: post #196
carlosjobim wrote: post #137

The question is: Why would anybody prefer a web-app over a native app in any kind of system or on any kind of device? I think the answer is "only when there is no native app for the system I use", ie Linux. So FOSS people want for apps to become much worse for everybody else, so that they can have the apps also through a web browser. Remembering that everybody else is who pays for the apps and all development, while…

I invite down voters to make a reply explaining why users would prefer web apps to native apps, given the choice.

I'm a "FOSS person" and spend a fair amount on apps that behave well. Just bought Brave Origin for $60 on Sunday, as an example.

I've been in the room when companies talk about web vs. app. It's always a business decision that basically comes down to "The LTV of app users is higher, because we live rent-free on their home screen and we can push notifications to get people to re-engage." Doesn't matter what company: apartment searches, rideshare, communications app, etc.

The reason I will always prefer web experiences is because:

* I have a user agent that I can configure the behavior of. I can examine, and even change, app behavior to suit my needs. I can intercept and black-hole telemetry. I can remove distracting UI elements. uBlock Origin allows me to do this. Vimium gives me a keyboard-centric interface to help avoid mouse usage, since lots of mousing gives me RSI.

* I write web apps that are self-contained HTML files. These are awesome because they endure. An app written that way will open in 20 years just as well as it does today. Tiddlywiki is a living example of this.

* Browsers provide a baseline of functionality: selecting, cutting, pasting, and editing all work the same (or can be made to). Apps randomly prevent me from selecting text, or pasting a password.

* Apps are a constant treadmill. Staying up to date with APIs and app store fees and reviews all cost money, which means apps have to make money. This discourages hobbiest coders from releasing cool tools like the did 15 years ago, but it's those apps, the ones made for fun or utility, not for profit, that tend to behave the best. App stores are selecting against the very thing that brings me the most value, in favor of what brings them the most value.

* Finally: control. App stores increasing think they should not only vend money-making software, but they should be the only source where users can go to get functionality. I reject this outright; it's my computer, I decide what runs on it. The web is the last bastion of this on mobile, so I prefer the web.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#255

Post by da02 »

jcmontx wrote: post #241

Something the author doesn't mention as a pro for the web is my favorite type of tech: browser extensions. I love web because I can basically customize pretty much everything to my needs. I have published a few of them in the last few years, and I have tens of them which I haven't published. I use them for tons of different things: * allowing only text tweets on X * blocking photos and videos on all Meta products * b…

Are these Chrome extensions? How did you learn to write them?

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#256

Post by Evidlo »

carlosjobim wrote: post #196
carlosjobim wrote: post #137

The question is: Why would anybody prefer a web-app over a native app in any kind of system or on any kind of device? I think the answer is "only when there is no native app for the system I use", ie Linux. So FOSS people want for apps to become much worse for everybody else, so that they can have the apps also through a web browser. Remembering that everybody else is who pays for the apps and all development, while…

I invite down voters to make a reply explaining why users would prefer web apps to native apps, given the choice.

I'll bite (I did not downvote). Why should I have to go to an app store to see text/images with occasional buttons that make GET/POST requests? This is what most "apps" in the world do.

The question should be reframed in the opposite direction: why do apps need to be siloed into multiple incompatible systems (appstores).

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#258

Post by tiborsaas »

smcg wrote: post #74

The fundamental problem with the internet is that hosting sucks and no one wants to do it. It's thankless and it's expensive to maintain, both time and money. Apps are a way to not worry about that. By the way, the link doesn't load for me, so I used the archive to read it. https://archive.ph/ByFBN

How many free and easy options do you want me to list?

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#259

Post by frankus »

The list of things that require an app rather than a web page was pretty long circa 2010, but it's quite a bit shorter now: it's mostly hardware access (Bluetooth/NFC), background activities (like background app refresh), persisting location permission, reliable offline storage, and system/OS integration (widgets/live activities, Siri shortcuts).

If done for the right reasons, a native app could theoretically be a bit more power- and bandwidth-efficient for a given level of polish.

But usually what you're getting is some cross-platform mystery meat UI, a boatload of tracking, and no real system/OS integration (because it isn't trivial to do from whatever cross-platform environment they chose).

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#260

Post by cyral »

Telaneo wrote: post #139
Grombobulous wrote: post #53

I recently decided to publish an app on the App Store just so I could say I accomplished that, and maybe even make a little bit of beer money on the side. Now, I’ll be the first to admit that my actual app is pretty much garbage. I don’t expect it to be popular. It’s basically a worse version of stuff that is already available. I expected this to be a learning exercise about the process of getting stuff published. Lo…

> I might be misremembering or misinterpreting, but it seems like you really need an LLC with a mail forwarding service and a cheap second phone line just to avoid the App Store sending the whole internet to your personal phone and address. For something free I can get why this would seem unreasonable (modulo scams, for which this is a hoop I would rather have than not), but if money's involved, a consumer should be…

> a consumer should be able to contact a human and be made whole

Apple does not provide any mechanism for developers to issue a refund, or even look up or view your purchase or subscription - so there is nothing a developer can do here besides refer you to apple support.

(Although as a developer I would like to be able to do this, because customers are very confused by it)

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