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New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

reuters.com

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Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#21

Post by hexator »

aynyc wrote: post #18

Don't worry, they'll just build the data centers in NJ and still considered NY 1-20. Sarcasm aside, I don't really know where they would build data centers in NYS. Electricity rate in northern and western NY is going thru the roof. ADK/Catskill have very sensitive environmental laws. Can't really build in lower hudson as real estate cost would be killer.

The Catskills have those environmental protection laws because they are the water source for NYC. It would be very stupid to relax those to build data centers.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#22

Post by cromka »

aynyc wrote: post #18

Don't worry, they'll just build the data centers in NJ and still considered NY 1-20. Sarcasm aside, I don't really know where they would build data centers in NYS. Electricity rate in northern and western NY is going thru the roof. ADK/Catskill have very sensitive environmental laws. Can't really build in lower hudson as real estate cost would be killer.

> I don't really know where they would build data centers in NYS

They would build them as close to NYC as possible. Data Centers existed prior to AI boom. HFT, edge hosting, etc.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#23

Post by martythemaniak »

Here's a view that I've not seen AI/DC proponents engage in (for example, Carmack's recent pro DC post)

AI is an exciting and promising new tech, much like the web/internet in 90s and smartphones in late 2000s. Back in those times, the tech industry was far, far smaller, tiny in the 90s and maybe like 1/20th of the current size in the late 2000s. Tech companies were not a big part of people's every day lives, so these technologies could be seen as something exciting happening off to the side that you didn't need to engage it if you didn't want to.

Today, Big Tech is absolutely ginormous and huge parts of people's lives are mediated by one of a half dozen companies that together form an interlocking set of barely accountable duopolies. It is this overbearing unescapable structure that is causing the backlash, because many people understand intuitively that this exciting new tech will be leveraged against them in every way possible by this structure. We cannot treat AI as neat new thing to play with, experiment with, find novel uses for, we have to put our guard up and defend against Big Tech and DC opposition is a very easy and straightforward way. DC opposition is also highly compatible with existing NIMBY networks and mindsets, which are bipartisan and widespread. Thus

All that is to say is that it's not the technology, it's that bad people are in power and are weilding it to make your life worse in myriad ways - layoffs, increased electricity rates, slop, etc.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#24

Post by greenie_beans »

baby wrote: post #2

I've been very curious about these, because of course these are measures that are anti-tech in a number of ways (or at least unpopular in the tech circle). I have trouble understanding why Sanders has decided to be vocal about these, especially as he's been on the right side of the societal debate fence since forever. My guess is that he cares more about what AI is going to do for the common people, and he knows that…

why are we talking about bernie sanders in the context of new york state? he's a US senator from vermont. this is state-level politics, not federal, in the state of new york, not vermont. and he's not mentioned once in this article?

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#26

Post by cmiles8 »

jeffbee wrote: post #20
EA-3167 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe they’re upset that the plan for AI to justify the trillions of sunk cost had to include massive layoffs and replacement of jobs with machines. That may not bother you, but it hardly takes a “Satanic frenzy” to dislike that prospect. More realistically imo the sunk cost is just sunk, but who wants to be the town buying into a gold rush that’s already showing signs of being a bit overblown.

99% of data center space has nothing to do with AI and is just the consequence of the long trend of flight from corporate data closets to central facilities and clouds.

Yeah no. Almost everything people are pushing back against is branded as AI data center expansion. Moving to the cloud doesn’t need net new data centers being build… that’s just workloads moving from one data center to another.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#27

Post by joering2 »

afavour wrote: post #3

It’s a one year moratorium. I don’t see a problem with this. A lot of voters are concerned about the impacts data centers will have, those concerns are not entirely unwarranted. We don’t actually have to be moving at breakneck speeds, the AI companies just want you to think we do. A pause to investigate seems warranted.

> We don’t actually have to be moving at breakneck speeds

According to one Canadian, er sorry, a UE citizen, er sorry, an Irishman named Kevin O'Leary, who is seeing Chinese spys everywhere, we actually do need to move with breakneck speed, because otherwise the quality of American lives will be forever gone. Or at least infuse of naive VC money flowing into his pockets will be gone.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#28

Post by aynyc »

cromka wrote: post #22
aynyc wrote: post #18

Don't worry, they'll just build the data centers in NJ and still considered NY 1-20. Sarcasm aside, I don't really know where they would build data centers in NYS. Electricity rate in northern and western NY is going thru the roof. ADK/Catskill have very sensitive environmental laws. Can't really build in lower hudson as real estate cost would be killer.

> I don't really know where they would build data centers in NYS They would build them as close to NYC as possible. Data Centers existed prior to AI boom. HFT, edge hosting, etc.

That's the insider joke. Look up NY1-NY4 data centers, they are all in NJ across the river. NYC just dump their shit into NJ is the usually move. But those areas are full now, and they don't really have anywhere to go but south jersey.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#29

Post by aynyc »

hexator wrote: post #21
aynyc wrote: post #18

Don't worry, they'll just build the data centers in NJ and still considered NY 1-20. Sarcasm aside, I don't really know where they would build data centers in NYS. Electricity rate in northern and western NY is going thru the roof. ADK/Catskill have very sensitive environmental laws. Can't really build in lower hudson as real estate cost would be killer.

The Catskills have those environmental protection laws because they are the water source for NYC. It would be very stupid to relax those to build data centers.

NYC owns those lands for water. ADK has forever wild in NYS constitution. They are not gonna get relax for data center because they discharge water and noise and add significant infrastructure change.

Solar farm on the other hand might go up tho.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#30

Post by goda90 »

I'll say it again. If these data centers are really going to be so profitable, then it should be easy to pay for closed loop cooling, self-built renewable energy and storage, noise and light mitigation, and still pay taxes. Attempts to dodge those is pure greed and people are right to fight back.
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