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Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

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Re: Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

#101

Post by jabiko »

Ntrails wrote: post #92
jabiko wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also with the planned changes, you have to prove that you have an legitimate interest in the information. Which makes the whole thing very vague. So the government can just say that they don't think you have a legitimate interest in the information and deny your request. You would then have to sue. Also also want to invoice you for all costs that your request causes. Previously it was capped at 500€. So your request…

> Previously it was capped at 500€. So your request could cost you thousands of euros. To be clear, it is currently costing the taxpayer said thousands of Euros. Time spent by government workers on FoI requests is meaningful and not free. That does not make them a bad idea, but we should be clear that passing costs on to the requester isn't precisely nefarious?

Yes, it is costing the taxpayer. However, I think there needs to be some cap, because otherwise the government can weaponize that and be extra inefficient when processing requests for things they don't want to become publicly available.

The current cap of 500€ is a good compromise IMHO: It deters people from issuing unnecessary FoI requests while at the same time keeping it in reach for the average person if they really want that information.

Re: Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

#102

Post by tremon »

denvrede wrote: post #12
pizzao wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A country in decay..

I'd generally agree, but my follow up question would be: which western country isn't?

Why limit yourself to western countries? In fact, why limit it to countries at all? Isn't it the most popular trope of all time to decry the state of today and romanticise yesterday? People have "not been wanting to work anymore" for at least 150 years, things were always better in the olden days, people don't make 'em like they used to, etm.

There's very little value in a statement like yours. It's a truism that has never been correct.

Re: Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

#104

Post by inigyou »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #58
eigenspace wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, what on earth makes you single out Poland as the single western country not in decay right now?

Its economy has been growing for 30 years non-stop, to the point that it is now compared to Singapore.

Economic growth is not the kind that's being referred to. I think Germany is also economically growing? It doesn't matter, they are still decaying in most ways.

Re: Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

#105

Post by snovymgodym »

flossly wrote: post #32
greenavocado wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland, but its on borrowed time due to the extreme fertility crisis.

Is fertility so important? Maybe the other western countries are equally infertile, but just allowed many immigrants in (which counts are population expansion) that also have more children on average. How are Japan and Korea holing out? They are further down the infertility down-spiral.

Yeah, it's pretty important if you are interested in the continued existence of your society

Re: Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

#106

Post by dxdm »

Ntrails wrote: post #92
jabiko wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also with the planned changes, you have to prove that you have an legitimate interest in the information. Which makes the whole thing very vague. So the government can just say that they don't think you have a legitimate interest in the information and deny your request. You would then have to sue. Also also want to invoice you for all costs that your request causes. Previously it was capped at 500€. So your request…

> Previously it was capped at 500€. So your request could cost you thousands of euros. To be clear, it is currently costing the taxpayer said thousands of Euros. Time spent by government workers on FoI requests is meaningful and not free. That does not make them a bad idea, but we should be clear that passing costs on to the requester isn't precisely nefarious?

The transparency of this information is a public good in itself, so it is in the interest of the public that this information can be requested as freely as possible.

Of course there should probably be a way to limit waste, but putting all financial cost onto a single person is a way to effectively limit freedom of information to the point where it contradicts and undermines the whole idea behind it. That's one of the reasons why this change is being proposed, and it is not a stretch to call this nefarious.

Re: Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

#107

Post by inigyou »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #91
flohofwoe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, do you seriously think the 'alternative' would be any more progressive when it comes to freedom of information (or government transparency in general) once they'd be in power?

I don’t think so. But if that’s what the people want who are you or me to question that? It’s the people’s will and democracy in action

Democracy doesn't always lead to what people actually want, in an era of widespread brainwashing.

Re: Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

#108

Post by fransje26 »

flossly wrote: post #30
denvrede wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd generally agree, but my follow up question would be: which western country isn't?

Denmark? The Swiss? Norway? And I was in Serbia lately, and while it was not as developed as NW-EU, nobody there described it as decaying (and many said they experiences decay when living in western nations over the past 2 decades).

> And I was in Serbia lately [..]

With OP postulating that it is to enable corruption, and a sub-reply affirming that it is therefore the trait of a country in decay, bringing in Serbia as a counter-example is hilarious.

Serbia ranks 116th in the corruption perception index, Germany 10th. (Lower is better)

Re: Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

#109

Post by bux93 »

Ntrails wrote: post #92
jabiko wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also with the planned changes, you have to prove that you have an legitimate interest in the information. Which makes the whole thing very vague. So the government can just say that they don't think you have a legitimate interest in the information and deny your request. You would then have to sue. Also also want to invoice you for all costs that your request causes. Previously it was capped at 500€. So your request…

> Previously it was capped at 500€. So your request could cost you thousands of euros. To be clear, it is currently costing the taxpayer said thousands of Euros. Time spent by government workers on FoI requests is meaningful and not free. That does not make them a bad idea, but we should be clear that passing costs on to the requester isn't precisely nefarious?

If you design processes to be open by design, the cost of extracting data (removing sensitive data that is indeed not needed) goes down radically. Governments know this and resist it.

Re: Germany set to restrict its Freedom of Information Act

#110

Post by inigyou »

u8080 wrote: post #80
jijijijij wrote: post #69

As a German citizen let me tell you, the rate of decline this country is in is truly shocking. This is by far the worst government in my lifetime, and remarkably there is wide consensus about it across the population (above 85% dissatisfaction, if you think I am exaggerating here). Industry and trade associations aren't happy either, which raises the question who asks for this? Life is getting forcefully precarious f…

When you are leading manufacturing power in region and loosing markets to China while allowing external powers to destroy your energy supplies(banning nuclear and blowing Nord Stream 2). No political bullshit will help with objective reality, being it rightoids who promise "optimizing" social spendings(while leaching on corruption) or leftoids who want to tax the rich(which will just drive factories and businesses to…

You could end the practice of land rent. This would encourage productive activity instead of treading economic water.
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