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Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

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Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#551

Post by selimthegrim »

WillAdams wrote: post #335
ericd wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds great, if you don’t mind sharing, what school was it? We have a couple of young kids that that seems like maybe a good fit for.

It was a school in rural Mississippi which was next to an Air Force Base and filled primarily w/ children of base personnel --- apparently it was changed away from that shortly after my father retired, I had thought because of legal challenges, but that was from the uncertain organic memory of 10 year old me of half a century ago.

Was this Keesler by any chance?

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#552

Post by selimthegrim »

toast0 wrote: post #399
nekusar wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the same too with renouncing citizenship. If you have federal student loans, you are trapped as being a US serf. And with usurious interest rates, you will never be able to buy your freedom.

Are federal student loans at usurious interest rates? From what I could find [1], the caps look fairly reasonable. The unaffordability seems to come from the financed amount. [1] https://mohela.studentaid.gov/DL/resourceCenter/DLInterestRa...

These are for government loans. I really wish my private loan north of 13% was capped.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#553

Post by selimthegrim »

ryzvonusef wrote: post #498
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You have the right to a degree in XYZ... you should NOT have the right to a taxpayer backed grant/aid/loan/whatever to gain said degree unless you're on a reasonable path to become a tax payer yourself as soon as you are done with the degree." Are you a US taxpayer. Profile says you are located in Pakistan

I'm Pakistani, and I'm just stating the facts as I see them. Many countries have free college education, but at the end of the day some one has to pay for it, and those are the tax-payers. And frankly, if your country's tax payers are, for whatever reason, NOT willing to subsidise it (in whatever way or form)... what can you do? It's not like I like this situation, but those are the facts. The wave of anti-social tre…

I could ask you the same question about government schools. Why is it that my uncle could go to government school in Pakistan in 70s and get good education and that’s not possible now.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#554

Post by selimthegrim »

ryzvonusef wrote: post #366
lionkor wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a shitty American take (or any of the countries that somehow decide the USA is a good model to follow), it's kind of baffling that this is a popular opinion and explains a lot of the social issues (or near lack of social system) you guys have. You know that technically, people are allowed to have fun and not strive to be a billionaire, right? Its everyones right to pick a path they want, and enjoy, and i…

I'm not an american, my profile clearly states I'm from the 3rd world. My father grew up dirt poor, and a basic associate degree (gotten via his saving from a factory job plus a partial scholarship he won) changed his entire trajectory from being a random labourer to an white collar office worker with enough funds to educate his own kids, especially his daughters. My father and my siblings helped fund my education, a…

I don’t understand how IK got elected so many times and not once did he attempt to increase taxpayer base. Is that Jehangir Tareen’s fault?

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#555

Post by snerbles »

mistercheph wrote: post #501
snerbles wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not elitist ivory tower navel gazing with possible 8th order effects or something.

Exactly: Elitist ivory tower as in free education for all that want it. 8th order effects like a well functioning society that isn't on the verge of collapse, where people live well, love each other, and think about interesting, important problems. Distinct from the 1st order effects of a really high GDP thanks to all of the code monkeys we've trained to glue react components together: which has netted us a society o…

So you're laundering academic class contempt into a theory of liberation.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#556

Post by NishanStepak »

IAmBroom wrote: post #542
NishanStepak wrote: post #540

Our economy is based on debt. New money comes from issuing debt. If there are not enough people taking on debt, the economy will not function as well. This is part of the reason so many people take on debt. The cultural value is worth more than the monetary value.

Only partially true. New money definitely comes from Nations issuing debt in the form of bonds, but I've never heard it claimed that my VISA interest adds to the GDP. > This is part of the reason so many people take on debt. The cultural value is worth more than the monetary value. That's hilarious. "Why did you spend four years getting a ___ degree?" "For the cultural value, and to add money to the economy!"

Visa Debt boosts consumer spending by adding to the Gross Domestic Product. People spend money they would not have had access to without credit cards or bank loans. The debt from loans flows to the business which the loan comes from. Also student loans suppress wages because of the need to pay off interest quickly. It is a double edged sword. Debt is a form of control.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#557

Post by pocksuppet »

Muromec wrote: post #527
pocksuppet wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries collapse very often. The land, cities, and people remain, and organize into new countries. Democracy was meant to pre-empt this with a regular controlled collapse and handover, like a controlled forest burn, but a democracy itself can also collapse.

Mind giving two examples that are attributable to questionable policy choices and not the usual empire lifecycle?

The usual empire lifecycle is caused by questionable policy choices.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#558

Post by toast0 »

selimthegrim wrote: post #552
toast0 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are federal student loans at usurious interest rates? From what I could find [1], the caps look fairly reasonable. The unaffordability seems to come from the financed amount. [1] https://mohela.studentaid.gov/DL/resourceCenter/DLInterestRa...

These are for government loans. I really wish my private loan north of 13% was capped.

I don't think private loans are federal loans?

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#559

Post by UncleMeat »

ndriscoll wrote: post #550
UncleMeat wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the test then it is plainly obvious from the data that humanities majors earn more than workers who never went to college. Where are you getting this idea that this isn't happening? In my state the text of the constitution is taught in 8th grade civics as part of the mandated state curriculum. How is this tied to undergraduate education? You immediately expanded this to "liberal ideas" and then "western ca…

I didn't say humanities majors don't earn more. People who earn more with their degree aren't the contention. The contention is the nebulous, intrinsic value of a "more educated society", c.f. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48880930 The constitution might've been mandated as part of the curriculum. That doesn't say much. The question in this subthread was about the relation between "education received" and "amo…

> I didn't say humanities majors don't earn more. People who earn more with their degree aren't the contention. The contention is the nebulous, intrinsic value of a "more educated society", c.f. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48880930

What? What is going on with this quote then?

"The test itself is simple: If an undergraduate program's graduates don't earn more than workers who never went to college, that program could be cut off from federal student loans. The same goes for any graduate program whose graduates earn less than someone with only a bachelor's degree."

> The constitution might've been mandated as part of the curriculum. That doesn't say much. The question in this subthread was about the relation between "education received" and "amount of knowledge possessed", to which I replied that I doubt most American college educated adults have actually read the constitution.

Up thread you said you doubted most college educated adults had read the constitution. You then repeated this. Now reading it isn't relevant? I have absolutely no idea what you are looking for here.

If your position is to simply assume that everybody is not doing any of the reading in a humanities class and then conclude that the classes must be useless then what can I possibly do here? We can have data demonstrating that humanities graduates earn higher wages than non-graduates. We can have curricula that include the materials you want people to learn.

> Or if you actually want to learn the material, can you just do so?

A university education gives you access to faculty members who are experts in the material they are teaching and who construct syllabi that are effective at teaching certain concepts and who can provide feedback on a student's analysis of those readings. They can also teach archival research skills that you'd never learn by just looking up famous books online. That is valuable.

----

I still am really struggling to understand specifically what you are frustrated by here. Can you give me an example of some specific interaction you've had with a person that you would attribute to the ineffectiveness of a contemporary humanities education?

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#560

Post by ryzvonusef »

selimthegrim wrote: post #554
ryzvonusef wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an american, my profile clearly states I'm from the 3rd world. My father grew up dirt poor, and a basic associate degree (gotten via his saving from a factory job plus a partial scholarship he won) changed his entire trajectory from being a random labourer to an white collar office worker with enough funds to educate his own kids, especially his daughters. My father and my siblings helped fund my education, a…

I don’t understand how IK got elected so many times and not once did he attempt to increase taxpayer base. Is that Jehangir Tareen’s fault?

bro i'm not touching local political drama with a 10 foot pole
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