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Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

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Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between "trippers" and renters. Had your read the article you'd know that they are ok with people living in cottages on Sunday just not "trippers" They want to reduce people who visit without staying. For Sunday is their day for mass etc Also most businesses are still closed on the Sunday because the town is Christian

> There is a difference between "trippers" and renters. Had your read the article you'd know that they are ok with people living in cottages on Sunday just not "trippers" Again, none of this makes it right. It's medieval-style thinking to just put up a gate on Sundays to keep all the "trippers" out as you put it. What if every city and town in India started doing this?

I'm not in US and have never set foot there ever.

But I've lived my entire life in India so far.

Most cities and towns won't do this because this affects only a handful of extremely small tourist places which are cool like have snow so they attract 80% of our 1 billion population who choose to be tourists.

I get your overall point though. But major cities just don't suffer from the same problems! Say Chennai or Mumbai or Trivendrum or Kochi or anybody else - this is simply not a problem. They don't have over tourism.

And such decisions will not be taken anywhere else in India

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overtl tourism is a major issue in Bali, Japan and Bhutan as well. It's a global thing. I remember reading that Greece or some European country had banned cruise ship docking because they didn't want the crowd who runs around the city for half a day

My personal opinion is less about the crowding (though that is a pain) and moreso how overtourism creates a form of Dutch disease and prevents more inclusive economic from being created. The state in India I mentioned (Himachal Pradesh) has a large tourism industry, but because of strict zoning laws was able to reduce the overall impact of tourism and zone SEZs and industrial parks which helped MSMEs climb up the val…

I know HP lol I live in India

I hadn't thought of it from your PoV but it makes sense.

And I had just been to the Sar pass trek from Kasol, and let me tell you. It's insanely over crowded right now. Despite the regulations.

On our trek we easily had 300+ people at 13k feet!

So I fully support such decisions because small towns can't handle such crowd

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article 13 allows customary law to be applied following judicial review. It's the same precedent most Himachalis use to keep tourists contained to a handful of tourist traps while keeping the rest of the state clean. Other border states and Northeastern states do the same thing. Semi-urban areas like Mawlynnong are governed by Panchayats - not municipal councils - and overtourism can become a kiss of death.

I doubt this has been given judicial review at the High Court/Supreme Court level. As for Himachal, you seem to be the expert but I thought that Himachal disallows non-locals from buying land (which I also think is wrong), not staying anywhere? Or does Himachal also have laws like this?

You have to note that Himachal or other mountain states with snow need protections. Otherwise they ll quickly lose their local traditions because the mountain snow states have extremely pleasant temperatures even in summer so rich folks from all over the country would simply buy out all the land and houses gentrification overloaded

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of fascinating to me because the few times I visited India I was completely gobsmacked by the insane levels of trash and pollution such that I never wanted to return. Like Gurugram reminded me of some type of ecological disaster dystopia out of Blade Runner. So I was particularly glad to see this story was about an Indian village and not one of the usual "amazingly clean Asian city" suspects, e.g. Singap…

> Like Gurugram reminded me of some type of ecological disaster dystopia out of Blade Runner That's because of zoning. Much of Gurgaon isn't zoned as a municipality but as villages or agricultural land, which means there is no unified municipal government in vast swathes of the city. This is the same issue with Bangalore. Other large Indian cities (eg. Pune, Ahmedabad, Chandigarh, Chennai, Hyderabad, etc) are nowhere…

This whole thread is 100% correct. Zoning, rezoning, related points are all correct. One minor correction though, the megacities where the comment mentions zoning being better is in most cases only true definitionally. For example, there are portions of chennai which are by the book, not part of chennai, but for all practical purposes, are. e.g, the new major city-wide bus stand is definitionally outside the city, but practically it is the bus stand to go to if you want to travel to the rest of the state, is not at all zoned properly and faces the same issues.

The only exception where rezoning has actually been done properly is hyderabad.

Here is the reason for this:

- The 74th amendment in india only calls for a _planning commitee_ (reminiscent of india's past) for any area with a population of over 10 lakh. But this MPC is completely distinct from the organisation that does the actual service delivery. In Chennai's example, the CMDA are the planning guys, and the GCC (greater chennai corporation) are the execution guys who actually employ garbage collection folks, buy cleaning machines, fix storm water drains, etc etc,.

CMDA covers ~6000 sq. km. and all that is practically chennai, and they plan bus stops and FSI and roads and all that across this region. However, the GCC is _still_ limited _to this day_ to just 500 sq. km and this is the "chennai" that appears in reports. So all your sanitation workers and clean roads, tree lined roads, good storm water drains, etc, that you see in say besant nagar, are completely absent in the remaining 5500 sq. km. Instead, you have multiple different corporations, Tambaram, Avadi, Kanchipuram, etc, and the coordination problems here are just insane. It also absolutely does not help that political fracturing happens due to dominant castes differing across these regions. You also lose the simple concept of rich people cross subsiding poor people - which is essential in any public service. The taxes paid by boat club road residents, remain with the GCC, and does not contribute even a little bit towards better roads on land under the Tambaram corporation, ironically leading to worse infrastructure for even the boat club road resident making a trip to Trichy. So you get nice parks and heart-shaped traffic lights in nungambakkam before even a road is paved in thoraipakkam.

In hyderabad, they did a very nice thing. They merged 27 ULBs directly into the GHMC, tripling its area from 650 to 2000 sq. km. So its the same thing CMDA did but through a merger. Those 27 bodies - with their staff, their ward councillors, their budgets - are now part of GHMC. The sanitation workers who used to report to, say, Medipally Municipality now report to GHMC. The property tax collected there now goes into GHMC's budget. The roads there are now GHMC's responsibility to maintain.

This unified thing devoid of coordination problems and with great cross subsidisation seems to work much better. It will be a good model for other cities to follow.

I don't know about amdavad and pune but I am willing to bet they are also good for similar reasons.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal opinion is less about the crowding (though that is a pain) and moreso how overtourism creates a form of Dutch disease and prevents more inclusive economic from being created. The state in India I mentioned (Himachal Pradesh) has a large tourism industry, but because of strict zoning laws was able to reduce the overall impact of tourism and zone SEZs and industrial parks which helped MSMEs climb up the val…

I know HP lol I live in India I hadn't thought of it from your PoV but it makes sense. And I had just been to the Sar pass trek from Kasol, and let me tell you. It's insanely over crowded right now. Despite the regulations. On our trek we easily had 300+ people at 13k feet! So I fully support such decisions because small towns can't handle such crowd

Sadly Arunachal is quickly becoming piss pit despite the fact that you need permits to visit.

Same for Kedarnath.

Permits need to be issued with the carrying capacity of the land in mind.

Bhutan seems to pull this off well.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#96
post #3

> In a country known for its lack of sanitation, this is no small feat. But in Mawlynnong, children are taught to tidy up from a young age, with many taking to the streets each morning before school to sweep the town of dead leaves and empty rubbish bins. Villagers see to the disposal of biodegradables and take pride in public landscaping. Culture is real.

> Culture is real Mawlynnong is barely 3,000 feet from Bangladesh, and the nearest town to it in Bangladesh (Jaflong - roughly 5 to 10 miles away) is much dirtier [0] despite also being inhabited by the same ethnic group (Khasi) as well. The main difference is, Meghalaya has much stronger local government whereas it's much weaker in Sylhet. Given that both Jaflong and Mawlynnong are inhabited by ethnic brethren of th…

You might have done the impossible and actually gotten rayiner to concede a point.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#97
post #3

> In a country known for its lack of sanitation, this is no small feat. But in Mawlynnong, children are taught to tidy up from a young age, with many taking to the streets each morning before school to sweep the town of dead leaves and empty rubbish bins. Villagers see to the disposal of biodegradables and take pride in public landscaping. Culture is real.

> Culture is real Mawlynnong is barely 3,000 feet from Bangladesh, and the nearest town to it in Bangladesh (Jaflong - roughly 5 to 10 miles away) is much dirtier [0] despite also being inhabited by the same ethnic group (Khasi) as well. The main difference is, Meghalaya has much stronger local government whereas it's much weaker in Sylhet. Given that both Jaflong and Mawlynnong are inhabited by ethnic brethren of th…

I’m not attributing the difference to aspects of culture common to ethnic groups. I’m pointing out that the article itself attributes the benefit to acculturation:

> But in Mawlynnong, children are taught to tidy up from a young age, with many taking to the streets each morning before school to sweep the town of dead leaves and empty rubbish bins. Villagers see to the disposal of biodegradables and take pride in public landscaping.

Socializing children to have certain values and habits is exactly how you create culture.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Culture is real Mawlynnong is barely 3,000 feet from Bangladesh, and the nearest town to it in Bangladesh (Jaflong - roughly 5 to 10 miles away) is much dirtier [0] despite also being inhabited by the same ethnic group (Khasi) as well. The main difference is, Meghalaya has much stronger local government whereas it's much weaker in Sylhet. Given that both Jaflong and Mawlynnong are inhabited by ethnic brethren of th…

You might have done the impossible and actually gotten rayiner to concede a point.

I’ll readily concede dirtyness can be beaten out of a culture. Indeed, elsewhere in this thread I posted the quote from Lee Kuan Yew describing how his was a problem that he solved in Singapore.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#99
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Culture is real Mawlynnong is barely 3,000 feet from Bangladesh, and the nearest town to it in Bangladesh (Jaflong - roughly 5 to 10 miles away) is much dirtier [0] despite also being inhabited by the same ethnic group (Khasi) as well. The main difference is, Meghalaya has much stronger local government whereas it's much weaker in Sylhet. Given that both Jaflong and Mawlynnong are inhabited by ethnic brethren of th…

I’m not attributing the difference to aspects of culture common to ethnic groups. I’m pointing out that the article itself attributes the benefit to acculturation: > But in Mawlynnong, children are taught to tidy up from a young age, with many taking to the streets each morning before school to sweep the town of dead leaves and empty rubbish bins. Villagers see to the disposal of biodegradables and take pride in publ…

But this particular instance isn't much related to that. In my school too, we did all that, and extending to beach cleanups. It's not like the same effect was there.

Besides, most garbage in most Indian cities/towns is not consumer litter in the first place. Side note: this is why 'guarded' areas such as metro stations are spotless.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between "trippers" and renters. Had your read the article you'd know that they are ok with people living in cottages on Sunday just not "trippers" They want to reduce people who visit without staying. For Sunday is their day for mass etc Also most businesses are still closed on the Sunday because the town is Christian

> There is a difference between "trippers" and renters. Had your read the article you'd know that they are ok with people living in cottages on Sunday just not "trippers" Again, none of this makes it right. It's medieval-style thinking to just put up a gate on Sundays to keep all the "trippers" out as you put it. What if every city and town in India started doing this?

As an Indian and an avid traveller I would welcome such a step.

So many places in India have been reduced to a shit show of filth because of not drawing a line.

Many places use an adaptive system of tickets/permits to keep tourist attractions attractive.

I wouldn't mind queuing up for permits if the upshot is a better experience and civic minded fellow travellers.

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