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Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

danq.me

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Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#71

Post by NiloCK »

jorisw wrote: post #28
close04 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to play games and intentionally be obtuse all across the thread. "They" are the developers. A website has far less access to a device than an app and ads are easier to block. So they wrap anything into an app to gain that access and make ad money.

What access? Like the OS native APIs that offer the very utility for these apps to even exist? Integration with OS features is what made the app ecosystem, because of utility. Project whatever conspiracy on that you want.

> What access?

Push notifications.

> Integration with OS features is what made the app ecosystem, because of utility.

This is true of some apps, like the beer-drinking one that uses the accelerometer / other orientation sensors.

It's not true of a large number of other apps, hence the "your app could have been a webpage" charge. This is distinct from "every app could be a webpage".

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#73

Post by graemep »

reddalo wrote: post #33
CuriouslyC wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's it. Apps took off because people felt comfortable yoloing stuff from the Apple app store, and for a short while before saturation, the app store reach was making small developers rich.

Apps took off because Apple did everything they could to make PWAs work badly, with no reliable notifications, no access to some data, etc. Apple did that because they want their sweet 30% from in-app purchases, which they couldn't enforce in PWAs.

Apps also took off on Android and Google likes PWAs.

I am not sure about the history, but a lot of it now is about tracking, and perceived security. Its far harder for users to manage things like location tracking in apps than in browsers.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#74

Post by smcg »

The fundamental problem with the internet is that hosting sucks and no one wants to do it. It's thankless and it's expensive to maintain, both time and money. Apps are a way to not worry about that.

By the way, the link doesn't load for me, so I used the archive to read it. https://archive.ph/ByFBN

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#75

Post by faangguyindia »

reddalo wrote: post #33
CuriouslyC wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's it. Apps took off because people felt comfortable yoloing stuff from the Apple app store, and for a short while before saturation, the app store reach was making small developers rich.

Apps took off because Apple did everything they could to make PWAs work badly, with no reliable notifications, no access to some data, etc. Apple did that because they want their sweet 30% from in-app purchases, which they couldn't enforce in PWAs.

yes, i am forced to to make a real app because storage is not reliable in PWA, browser or OS can wipe off data.

i don't want to pay for servers just to have an app.

and updating apps is slow, for flutter you need to pay for shorebird.

In react native land, not sure but there are paid stuff like expo? you can self host but usually you end up payign for some OTA provider?

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#76

Post by jorisw »

NiloCK wrote: post #71
jorisw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What access? Like the OS native APIs that offer the very utility for these apps to even exist? Integration with OS features is what made the app ecosystem, because of utility. Project whatever conspiracy on that you want.

> What access? Push notifications. > Integration with OS features is what made the app ecosystem, because of utility. This is true of some apps, like the beer-drinking one that uses the accelerometer / other orientation sensors. It's not true of a large number of other apps, hence the "your app could have been a webpage" charge. This is distinct from "every app could be a webpage".

> Push notifications

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Push_API

> hence the "your app could have been a webpage" charge

No debate there. I was responding to the ever vague and broad "they want" comments.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#77

Post by imjonse »

reddalo wrote: post #33
CuriouslyC wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's it. Apps took off because people felt comfortable yoloing stuff from the Apple app store, and for a short while before saturation, the app store reach was making small developers rich.

Apps took off because Apple did everything they could to make PWAs work badly, with no reliable notifications, no access to some data, etc. Apple did that because they want their sweet 30% from in-app purchases, which they couldn't enforce in PWAs.

apps took off before browsers had the capabilities required for native-like behaviour (fast graphics, hw functionality, notifications) and then were used even for apps that could have been web-apps.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#79

Post by justarobert »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #45
jorisw wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWAs (progressive web apps) surely existed before React though

IIRC, the cutting edge of PWAs when the app store was taking off was Backbone.js, which I don't recall being pleasant enough to work with to want to make anything large in.

I worked on converting an existing knockoutjs SPA into a PWA around that time. I won't claim it was a pleasant experience but it was probably a lot easier and quicker than a small team of webdevs learning mobile dev and cheaper than a new hire. It wasn't a small or basic app, but we did have the advantage of it being a B2B tool that would only be used on android tablets. IIRC it was going to be either extra work or maybe even impossible to get the same functionality on iOS/safari at the time so we just didn't.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#80

Post by anonzzzies »

smcg wrote: post #74

The fundamental problem with the internet is that hosting sucks and no one wants to do it. It's thankless and it's expensive to maintain, both time and money. Apps are a way to not worry about that. By the way, the link doesn't load for me, so I used the archive to read it. https://archive.ph/ByFBN

I love hosting and I will never stop doing it. I keep buying servers (second hand; almost no one actually needs the latest) and hosting 1000s of companies.
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