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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

github.com

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Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#21

Post by lexlambda »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #5

I agree with the sentiment but is there even any phone that doesn't run Android (or derivatives) or iOS and that can install modern "apps"?

You must realize, age verification is for more then just Googles Android apps.

Such a strong new legal framework must consider consumer hardware actually in use:

- Android variations Like GrapheneOS, Huawei's HarmonyOS, older phones running custom ROMs - Linux phones, which are sold in the EU and by EU companies

- Desktop operating systems

All of them can run Web Apps, and thus need age verification

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#22

Post by ThatMedicIsASpy »

Beijinger wrote: post #3

I am not a fan of such an "app". But the app is, as far as I understand, for things like Facebook, TikTok etc. Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors? WebOS was nice but who is still using this? Symbian? Can you even use Social Media Apps with another phone OS?

I'm on SailfishOS since a couple of years

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#24

Post by shevy-java »

What baffles me the most is how the EU commission constantly works in favour of US corporations in the long run. This is really strange. Something does not work in the explanations given by the EU commission. To me it looks like US lobbyists run the EU here.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#25

Post by blop »

This is the elephant in the room regarding the big "digital sovereignty" talks in the EU. For the moment in the EU institutions the focus is mostly at the post-acceptance stage that everything must eventually migrate off US clouds. There is still some denial and hope that things will go back to "before" because it's going to be extremely costly to migrate, but at least high level EU civil servants start to see the strategic value of moving out.

However there is ZERO talk about mobile platforms... No alternative solution like linux for the desktop, no money or care given to the few alternative that tentatively exist, and zero talk about forcing companies (at least for the ones shipping android phones) to open up their firmwares and allow users to install alternative OS if they want to sell in the EU.

So whilst the backend guys more or less got the memo about sovereignty, I think there is still a lot of educational work to do regarding end user devices and what kind of digital slavery hole we're digging ourselves in...

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#26

Post by anthk »

uniq7 wrote: post #12
Beijinger wrote: post #3

I am not a fan of such an "app". But the app is, as far as I understand, for things like Facebook, TikTok etc. Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors? WebOS was nice but who is still using this? Symbian? Can you even use Social Media Apps with another phone OS?

> Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors Yes, there are many more: GNU/Linux, Windows, macOS, *BSD, etc. This will prevent people who only own a computer and not a modern iOS/Android smartphone from accessing services and platforms. This also sets a very strong anti-competition pressure. Which company will try now to invest on developing a new OS for smartphones if we already know…

Well, that would boost up torrent and sites and places like Usenet and IRC with no age verification at all. English speakers can just use overseas servers (or non-UE services such as the ones in Switzerland). And maybe Usenet servers outside the US too.

Spanish speakers in Spain will just register services in Latinamerica sites with a VPN. Despite the dialect differences, non-jargon Spanish it's understood everywhere and once they got their user registered they can switch the country anytime.

Distros like Trisquel will just set their sites and mirrors outside the EU. And, well, if they provide a portable torrent client for Windows among the torrent the law would be utterly broken.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#27

Post by Scaled »

sschueller wrote: post #9

Two platforms that are not owned by companies in the EU. Effectively handing the keys to your state ID to private foreign enterprise. What will you do when Apple/Google or the US Government effective immediately delete/block your app? The impact initially may be small but after a few years if widely used, you can break a country.

Another juicy threat vector is forcing the app stores to stealthily ship a modified version of the app that sends copies of the IDs and/or tracking data to US intelligence services.

(Reminder: we know Persona's verification software already shares verification data with the federal government. It's a leap to modifying other apps, but within the realm of possibility of US government power. There is absolutely desire from them to gather blackmail material on politically important people, and age verification systems connected to adult sites/apps are a great way to do it)

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#28

Post by shevy-java »

kubo6472 wrote: post #23

Yeah, I am leaning towards never to use anything that is forced to implement any kind of age verification.

Well, they could change the laws to force people into slavery here, e. g. by forcing them to use US corporations ("if you do not have an app from Google store, you are excluded from society"). In that case they see age sniffing as ultimate tool of spying on everyone, so this is probably the real goal. What we all can see is that this has never been about children - they are just abused as the red hering here.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#29

Post by shevy-java »

spaqin wrote: post #18

Funny how the worry of "digital exclusion" of the elders who would never be able to use a smartphone has been thrown out of the window in recent years.

That's because they are lying to the people here. Just look at the "we must protect the children" lobbyists. It has never been about the children in the first place, that is just the convenient lie to force an authoritarian system in place.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#30

Post by skrebbel »

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app.

Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in some misguided bid to beat the pedos. In Roblox’ case, this means sharing your 3D likeness with some sketchy American business who pinky promises to delete said data after. I don’t want random American tech companies to have my kids’ biometric info like that, able to sell it to whoever asks. Nor my passport or anything like that.

I’d much prefer a government supplied app, that’s guaranteed to protect my privacy, and has no business incentive to sell my data, where I can see what data about me (or my son) is shared with Roblox or whichever sleazy business wants it.

Obviously this only makes sense if the government is less sleazy than the average American tech business, but for all its faults, I think that currently holds for the EU (and most of its member countries). There’s plenty precedent of EU governments doing privacy-conscious apps right (the Dutch covid tracking app comes to mind).

I hope they see reason and fix this here issue.

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