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Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

lenergy.com.au

41–50 of 427 posts

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#41
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should still feel some guilt for the heat pollution your air conditioning causes for those outside your house, esp. in an urban area.

Can you please elaborate more on pollution from air conditioning equipment and heat pumps. I was thinking they are closed systems.

Sorry autocorrect changed heat pollution to ‘what pollution’, I’ve fixed that now.

There is some impact on others, particularly those without ac.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#42
post #14

Incentivizing usage during peak times makes total sense, but if price swings are this wild, how are grid scale batteries not highly economical? My rough ballpark math was that you need roughly 20 kilowatts of battery storage to make this issue basically nonexistent, and that would cost about 10 billion dollars, which doesn't seem that much for this.

I think it's less a question of batteries being economical, and more a question of the relative economics of batteries vs solar panels. After all, if the highest demand is between 16:30 and 19:00 you could use batteries to store power at 12:00 and sell it at 18:00 - or in famously sunny Australia you could build enough solar panels that solar output at 18:00 matches power demand. If batteries have a solid 9% return o…

You won't get 12% return if your panels generate electricity which is only paid between 18 and 19, because there is already overcapacity between 16:30 and 18.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#43

Dynamic pricing and deployment of digital smart meters should by mandatory in all electric grids dominated by renewables. Large electric consumers are already buying electricity at dynamic prices, small consumers should have the same incentives to shift the demand to day hours.

I'm so on board for this. It would be kind of fun to wire all my appliances in to home assistant to have the dishwasher / dryer / etc all run during the free hours.

I imagine eventually we might end up with some thermal storage where during peak renewable production you heat/freeze a large tank of water and then utilize it to heat/cool your house for the rest of the day. A large tank of water is much cheaper than battery storage.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Australian, the lack of anxiety and guilt you get when you're using 10-12 hours of air conditioning in the middle of summer and not paying for a cent of it because your solar panels are covering is worth more than anything

Why shouldn't that be true practically every consumer home in the world? Yes, grid scale deployments are cheaper, but I'm generally guessing a lot of the grid scale solar deployments do not price in the grid infrastructure adaptation costs, and I'm not even talking about grid storage. Consumer rooftop solar is fundamentally democratic: it reduces reliance on centralized institutions for power delivery, Make society a…

> Why shouldn't that be true practically every consumer home in the world?

Here in Sweden nearly all of the electricity bill you pay is concentrated on the winter months when there is literally zero sunshine. Even then solar is popular here. I calculated that installing solar would take around 10 years or more to pay for itself, but I have very little hope to stay in the same house all that time so for me it seemed like a bad investment.

That said, if you live in places where it’s sunny most of the time even in winter, like Australia, then solar is absolutely great, just don’t assume most places are like that.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#46
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please elaborate more on pollution from air conditioning equipment and heat pumps. I was thinking they are closed systems.

Sorry autocorrect changed heat pollution to ‘what pollution’, I’ve fixed that now. There is some impact on others, particularly those without ac.

In a country like Australia where building density is extremely low that’s a negligible problem?!

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#47
Ideally, they should pay the EV owners because electricity price goes negative. The EV owners are spending their own money to create a scalable on-demand storage infrastructure. This saves CapEx/OpEx of BESS and also eliminates peaker natural gas plants. EV owners should be paid once for allowing storage, and paid again for using the power to supply back to the grid (V2G).

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#48
post #14

Incentivizing usage during peak times makes total sense, but if price swings are this wild, how are grid scale batteries not highly economical? My rough ballpark math was that you need roughly 20 kilowatts of battery storage to make this issue basically nonexistent, and that would cost about 10 billion dollars, which doesn't seem that much for this.

One of my co-workers (I'm Australian) has 500 kilowatt-hours of storage at home...which is wild. Much more common is the 10-20 kilowatt-hours of domestic storage for a house.

More details please, do they have a website that explains their setup?

Are they a hoarder of old car batteries and the like?

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my co-workers (I'm Australian) has 500 kilowatt-hours of storage at home...which is wild. Much more common is the 10-20 kilowatt-hours of domestic storage for a house.

What is their fire suppression setup like??? Granted I guess they could be doing pumped hydro storage lol

If they're in a rural / industrial area setting it could quite literally be a fire break around the battery area (bare dirt and no overhanging trees).

Fire control in Australia is first and foremost about limiting spread - the bush in Australia goes off if it catches hard.

"Mini" pumped hydro is a thing here (in places): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/australian-first-mini...

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#50
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the higher elec prices for the benefit of those of us not in Aus? Is that because of the smart meter requirement?

Before: 25c/kwh all day After: 30c/kwh most of the day, 0c from 11-2 It's still worth it if you have a lot of load you can shift to the middle of the day (like a pool heater or battery), but for most 9-5 workers you just end up paying more at the times you're actually home. Smart meters are free, most people already have one.

I thought most Australians had different pricing for peak/off-peak. I'm paying 39c/kWh for peak (3pm to 9pm) and 20c/kWh for off-peak (9pm to 3pm the next day).
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