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Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

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Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#71

Post by Eueudhsbsj32 »

fy20 wrote: post #63
sysworld wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I find it hard to understand people who litter.

What I really don't understand is throwing litter from cars. You literally cannot find somewhere in your car to keep the litter until you get home?

I was recently traveling on a local bus near the Amazon and an indigenous family sitting in front of me were eating a local snack. When they finished, they opened the window and threw out the plastic wrappers.

At first I couldn't understand how someone who lives so close to nature could do something like that. But then I realized that when the parents were kids, those snacks were probably wrapped in banana leaves, not plastic, so discarding the leaves on the ground would have been perfectly natural thing to do.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#72

Post by thesmtsolver2 »

rayiner wrote: post #3

> In a country known for its lack of sanitation, this is no small feat. But in Mawlynnong, children are taught to tidy up from a young age, with many taking to the streets each morning before school to sweep the town of dead leaves and empty rubbish bins. Villagers see to the disposal of biodegradables and take pride in public landscaping. Culture is real.

Most western cities were trays filled till a few decades. Some like SF and Seattle still have zones that resemble a war zone. Have you been to Skid row in LA? Yeah, culture is real.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#73

Post by profsummergig »

Rendello wrote: post #38
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of fascinating to me because the few times I visited India I was completely gobsmacked by the insane levels of trash and pollution such that I never wanted to return. Like Gurugram reminded me of some type of ecological disaster dystopia out of Blade Runner. So I was particularly glad to see this story was about an Indian village and not one of the usual "amazingly clean Asian city" suspects, e.g. Singap…

I've read that Japan had some crazy pollution and littering until regulations and campaigns in the 70s. Alright, I'll admit, I saw it on a Youtube short [1]. There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on the change on the Internet (at least not the English Internet), but this Japanese guy's anecdotes seem to corroborate it [2]. It makes sense, a lot of countries started taking pollution and littering more seriousl…

There are no consequences for bad behavior in India if you are powerful enough (e.g. a police constable is a very very powerful person who can be filmed taking a bribe or filmed thrashing some innocent person and nothing happens to them.)

When they are able/willing to enforce consequences for bad behavior, most of India's civic problems will evaporate.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#74

Post by jerlam »

rayiner wrote: post #14
doublerabbit wrote: post #4

> Do not spit" signs > Some tourists have complained about the ban, saying it should have been implemented on a weekday instead These should not be a thing. What is it that makes folk feel so entitled? "Lack of litter bins"; isn't an excuse. I've seen folk stand next to a litter bin, light up and then throw the cigarettes end to the ground. You're literally standing next to a litter bin! It should be common sense not…

Its rooted in culture and how people are socialized to relate to public spaces and the people around them. Here’s Lee Kuan Yew talking about the same problem he faced in Singapore at first: https://medium.com/@barronqasem/the-moral-behind-lee-kuan-ye... (“The difficult part was getting the people to change their habits so that they behaved more like first world citizens, not like third world citizens spitting and lit…

> in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling.

America is a really big place.

My "progressive" American city has a lot of litter, because there is no money to clean it up or punish litterers.

I've been in quite a few American cities where recycling bins simply do not exist.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#75

Post by alephnerd »

kaycey2022 wrote: post #70
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like quite the stretch just to blame it on zoning. Gurugram was particularly bad but the other places around New Delhi I visited weren't much better.

Blaming it on “culture” makes me feel good about myself and my in-group.

It's not a culture thing though. The ethnic groups and castes that dominates Gurgaon and Delhi local government also dominates local government in the Chandigarh Capital Region (CCR) as well as other urban agglomerations in Haryana such as Karnal and Kurkushetra which are all much better managed than Gurgaon.

The key difference is zoning is nowhere near as screwy in those metros compared to Gurgaon. Gurgaon's urbanization in 1990s to 2010s was completely unplanned. It was the literal Wild West.

Same with Bangalore compared to other large metros in Karnataka like Mangalore and Mysore.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#76

Post by quadrifoliate »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #60
quadrifoliate wrote: post #50

As someone born and brought up in India, I'm a little conflicted about this. Of course it is true that a lot of Indians have no civic sense, and will spit, litter, and generally make a noisy nuisance of themselves in this quiet village. On the surface it seems to be a great story about that nuisance being kicked out one day of the week. At the same time, this is part of...India. It seems questionable legally, and als…

> Visitors who book guesthouse rooms in Mawlynnong through Saturday and Sunday are exempt from the Sunday ban Did you read the article?

I did, a requirement to book a guesthouse room through the weekend does not make the moral/legal issues any better.

Imagine that some town in the US did this; and shut down otherwise public roads to anyone who is not a resident or a guest of a hotel in the town for the weekend, citing visitor nuisance as the reason.

Would you feel better about it because "well you can just book a hotel for the weekend"?

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#77

Post by [deleted] »

satvikpendem wrote: post #58
irjustin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know statements like this mean well, but man it's so frustrating. It's the same thing as telling a person with depression to "just be happy". If it were so simple this would've been solved nation wide by Modi's 2014 address. Where does this education come from? Leaders, but leaders are product of their social environment. To create this change means to go against the norm meaning someone or a few have to break the…

More like, the education thus far was insufficient, not that it's not simple to just have education; it is that simple, but simple does not mean easy or without effort. Japan instills cleanliness from early schooling, that's what needs to be done in India too. Not just throwing up our hands and saying "it's not that simple."

[deleted]

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#78

Post by quadrifoliate »

satvikpendem wrote: post #61
quadrifoliate wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hit the nail on the head. It's not that simple. I was born and raised in India and I have seen hordes of supposedly "educated" Indian people with degrees littering and making a nuisance of themselves; and seen a lot of Indians who didn't have a formal education be much more conscientious about cleanliness and such because their family raised them that way. It's some combination of moral education, culture, scienc…

Degrees doesn't mean someone was brought up with cleanliness as a value, that's not what they mean by "educated." It's education of taking care of your general area and environment, not general schooling.

> It's education of taking care of your general area and environment, not general schooling.

I kind of know what you mean, but feel like we are going into No True Scotsman territory with the "well, that's not what education really means".

Degrees and such are typically the yardstick by which education is measured; if attainment of this education as measured by those yardsticks does not correlate with cleanliness, then the conclusion must be "The education system in India is broken and we should emphasize cleanliness in the education system" rather than "Education will solve cleanliness, it's that simple".

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#79

Post by alephnerd »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #76
thewhitetulip wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Visitors who book guesthouse rooms in Mawlynnong through Saturday and Sunday are exempt from the Sunday ban Did you read the article?

I did, a requirement to book a guesthouse room through the weekend does not make the moral/legal issues any better. Imagine that some town in the US did this; and shut down otherwise public roads to anyone who is not a resident or a guest of a hotel in the town for the weekend, citing visitor nuisance as the reason. Would you feel better about it because "well you can just book a hotel for the weekend"?

Article 13 allows customary law to be applied following judicial review.

It's the same precedent most Himachalis use to keep tourists contained to a handful of tourist traps while keeping the rest of the state clean. Other border states and Northeastern states do the same thing.

Semi-urban areas like Mawlynnong are governed by Panchayats - not municipal councils - and overtourism can become a kiss of death.

Re: Mawlynnong, India, transformed by tourism, bans visitors on Sundays

#80

Post by laughing_man »

zuzululu wrote: post #56
laughing_man wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is literally part of Asia. How else would you describe it?

so is Israel and Australia but you dont call them Asians do you

Australia is its own continent, at least as we reckon them in the US. So, no, that's not Asia.

I suppose Israel is technically part of Asia, but of course we always refer to that area as the Middle East.

But India... that's either South Asia or just Asia.

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