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Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

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Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#191

Post by nozzlegear »

ieatcandlewax wrote: post #188
nozzlegear wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few things IMO: First, the police have a weird habit of determining that black people drive the most suspicious cars. Does this racial profiling extend to their drone use as well? It's clear from the article that the police are using the drones in more situations than just the active investigations that they claim to use them in. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black ) Second, if you're being followed…

> First, the police have a weird habit of determining that black people drive the most suspicious cars. Does this racial profiling extend to their drone use as well? It's clear from the article that the police are using the drones in more situations than just the active investigations that they claim to use them in. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black ) What about we keep the drones to reduce crime an…

> If they ask YOU what crime YOU'RE committing you don't have to answer. Why would they have to answer you or even admit to following you?

Why should the police be accountable, indeed? That's honestly my whole point, my whole issue with police having drones. They're not accountable, and when they get caught, they lie or ignore. They have power over you and I, they're in a special position, and for that reason we should both be fighting them and holding them accountable wherever and whenever they step over the line (which, I'm sure you're aware, is constantly). Given the option and an inch, the police would establish a surveillance panopticon, all in the name of "safety."

> That is a valid concern, but unless the police are allowed to fly drones in places where gen pop aren't allowed to, they aren't getting any special privileges from their position so I thin the point is moot.

The police do, literally, have special drone privileges. They get access to special, high-powered surveillance drones that the public does not get. They get training to use these drones. They get the tacit permission of our governments to use these drones in their pursuit of us, to record video of us going about our daily lives, to survey us listening to music on our rooftops, or driving with our friends, or living in our apartments.

Go fly a drone outside of a police officer's house and you'll end up dead or in jail. Meanwhile, the police themselves can fly a drone outside your window, or use drones to stalk you if you're a woman, and people like some of the commenters in this thread will lay down their lives to defend them from public criticism.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#192

Post by cyanydeez »

fortran77 wrote: post #186
cyanydeez wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you were a minority in America, you'd understand where suspicious leads to murder. so kinda understand where _you_ dont see a problem and so many other people will. Generating false positives is not something society should actively cultivate, nor does it make anyone safer.

I'm a minority in America. I have no problem with Police drones.

congrats; I'm sure we can now ignore all other minorities.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#193

Post by nozzlegear »

scoofy wrote: post #183
ceejayoz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is it leads to stuff like this: https://www.404media.co/footage-shows-cop-stalking-woman-he-... > The cop, Lamar Roman, wasn’t trying to pull over a suspected criminal. He was tracking and chasing a woman that he met and harassed on the set of the AppleTV+ show Bad Monkey, which he had worked a security detail shift on a few weeks prior to pulling her over. After meeting the woman, catcalling her…

You are describing a crime. The solution to police committing crimes is police oversight, not neutering policing powers completely.

IMO the solution is asking why police need these powers in the first place.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#194

Post by nozzlegear »

maxlybbert wrote: post #144
greenleafone7 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that police misuse every single power they have been given and public trust is very low for years now. I do not want to live in a world where random drones/cameras control my every move, and if your response to that is "I don't understand the problem" then we cannot live in the same society. It has been proven for thousands of years now that more laws do not fix society, and especially the problems we…

Yes, it is true that police have powers that can be abused, and police have abused them. It’s also true that they have those powers because we’ve decided the alternative is worse. The example used in the article was a case where police did not obviously abuse their authority. If you want to get me worked up about police overreach, you’ll need a different example. > I do not want to live in a world where random drones…

> It’s also true that they have those powers because we’ve decided the alternative is worse.

I don't ever remembering getting the option to vote on whether my police department could use drones and surveillance tech or not. We can't possibly conclude that society has decided the alternative is worse – society never got a choice, the police departments are just spending their budgets on cool military shit and then going on to abuse it like they always do.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#195

Post by nozzlegear »

tim-tday wrote: post #167
ryandrake wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What made the police think they were “suspicious”? Anybody can be suspicious if you want to tail them for another reason. When you leave the judgement entirely to the person who gets to initiate the surveillance, then you are saying anyone can be surveilled.

Yes, that’s what police do. They drive around and use their judgment to match known criminal activity to behaviors they see around them. Hopefully instances of false positives like two kids going to play basketball get dropped without undue interruptions of the lives of people just going about their lives. (As happened in this case)

> Yes, that’s what police do. They drive around and use their judgment to match known criminal activity to behaviors they see around them.

See also: racial profiling and Driving While Black.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#196

Post by nozzlegear »

akimbostrawman wrote: post #141
ceejayoz wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That they're not willfully blind to the reality we live in?

You mean the reality of using patterns and data points such as statistics to determine likelihood of danger? Like you and me do every day even if you don't notice? Would the same have happened if they where two women which are statistically less likely to be a danger than men?

The police doing racial profiling is never a good thing, it destroys community trust for one.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#197

Post by ceejayoz »

selimthegrim wrote: post #189
rayiner wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Despite their faults on macro-politics, rigidly Islamic countries are remarkably safe and peaceful at the micro level. Tehran has a half the homicide rate of Toronto! This is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life. I'll have to remember to tell my Ahmedi relatives from Peshawar and Gilgit that after they (separately) got out of Dodge after they heard their neighbors wanted their heads on pikes.

An in-the-wild example of https://x.com/dril/status/831805955402776576.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#198

Post by nozzlegear »

Gigachad wrote: post #92
buellerbueller wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the value of having the data on public spaces publicly available far outweighs the risk of privately held data, or editorializaed data from public spaces. Also: You're welcome to disable push notifications if you don't want a big mac ad. (I agree that advertising is a cancer.) Also, 2: What right should the government have to capture public data and then keep it from the public?

The government is different from a person. I’m ok with cctv being recorded and stored for x days with protocols and laws that restrict who can access it and for what purposes. With audit logs and penalties for misuse.

On the other hand, I'm not okay with this precisely because it's the government.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#199

Post by ceejayoz »

scoofy wrote: post #183
ceejayoz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is it leads to stuff like this: https://www.404media.co/footage-shows-cop-stalking-woman-he-... > The cop, Lamar Roman, wasn’t trying to pull over a suspected criminal. He was tracking and chasing a woman that he met and harassed on the set of the AppleTV+ show Bad Monkey, which he had worked a security detail shift on a few weeks prior to pulling her over. After meeting the woman, catcalling her…

You are describing a crime. The solution to police committing crimes is police oversight, not neutering policing powers completely.

> The solution to police committing crimes is police oversight…

Yeah, when we try that, they… commit more crimes.

Riots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrolmen%27s_Benevolent_Assoc...

Doxxing the mayor's kid: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/twitter-suspends-account...

Or even bombing the mayor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_San_Francisco_P...

> The ACLU obtained a court order prohibiting strikers from carrying their service revolvers. Again, the SFPD ignored the court order. On August 20, a bomb detonated at the Mayor's home with a sign reading "Don't Threaten Us" left on his lawn. On August 21, Mayor Alioto advised the San Francisco Board of Supervisors that they should concede to the strikers' demands. The Supervisors unanimously refused. Mayor Alioto immediately then declared a state of emergency, assumed legislative powers, and granted the strikers' demands.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#200

Post by inigyou »

tencentshill wrote: post #161
inigyou wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quadcopters, you mean? They are cheap, and reliable enough given that they are cheap, but that's all.

Cheap while China allows them to be cheap.

True, but that's true of everything. Western countries willingly forgot how to manufacture stuff.
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