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Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

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Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#11

Post by apical_dendrite »

sndgndgndgndy wrote: post #8
apical_dendrite wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The IDF/Hasbara has been active on HN for over a decade. Trying to write things off as conspiracy theories doesn't work when the site is under persistent social influence attack by a state actor.

To quote the HN guidelines:

> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#12

Post by apical_dendrite »

lorecore wrote: post #9
apical_dendrite wrote: post #4

There's a reason this article doesn't actually quote the text of this provision. The text itself is pretty boilerplate and has nothing to do with a "merger" of the US and Israeli militaries. It basically just tells the Secretary of Defense to appoint someone to coordinate research and development efforts in certain areas. https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/8800... The idea that this bill would ma…

1. Israel is not an ally, Israel is not in NATO. Most US citizens do not support Israel and want to completely disentangle the US from Israel. Israel has attacked the US on many occasions going so far as to steal nuclear secrets (Jonathan Pollard). 2. The text makes it very clear that this is a merger. A sibling comment posted the exact copy, read it for yourself.

This is factually wrong. Israel is a "major non-NATO ally" https://www.state.gov/major-non-nato-ally-status

Where in the text do you see anything about a "merger"? Bilateral agreements to develop technology are common between countries. That is nothing resembling a merger. There is no discussion of joint command structure, joint budgeting, etc.

Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#13

Post by lorecore »

apical_dendrite wrote: post #12
lorecore wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Israel is not an ally, Israel is not in NATO. Most US citizens do not support Israel and want to completely disentangle the US from Israel. Israel has attacked the US on many occasions going so far as to steal nuclear secrets (Jonathan Pollard). 2. The text makes it very clear that this is a merger. A sibling comment posted the exact copy, read it for yourself.

This is factually wrong. Israel is a "major non-NATO ally" https://www.state.gov/major-non-nato-ally-status Where in the text do you see anything about a "merger"? Bilateral agreements to develop technology are common between countries. That is nothing resembling a merger. There is no discussion of joint command structure, joint budgeting, etc.

I speak as a US citizen, not as an Epstein blackmailed politician. Israel is our enemy. To requote the text:

> "... responsible for synchronizing cooperative efforts between the United States and Israel, to expand and accelerate bilateral defense technology research, development, testing, evaluation, integration, and industrial cooperation, by-- (1) identifying jointly developed or Israeli-origin technologies with operational utility for potential integration into United States systems and programs of record; (2) ensuring collaborative research initiatives involving government, private sector, and academic institutions in the United States and Israel, is done in a manner that protects sensitive technology and information and the national security interests of the United States and Israel;"

Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#14

Post by sndgndgndgndy »

apical_dendrite wrote: post #11
sndgndgndgndy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IDF/Hasbara has been active on HN for over a decade. Trying to write things off as conspiracy theories doesn't work when the site is under persistent social influence attack by a state actor.

To quote the HN guidelines: > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

No, and if you ban me I'll make a new account on a fresh IP. I've seen IDF and Hasbara types posting literal copy-pasted verbatim-identical shill replies from multiple sockpuppet HN accounts, going all the way back to at least 2013. I'm not letting this go.

Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#15

Post by apical_dendrite »

sndgndgndgndy wrote: post #14
apical_dendrite wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote the HN guidelines: > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

No, and if you ban me I'll make a new account on a fresh IP. I've seen IDF and Hasbara types posting literal copy-pasted verbatim-identical shill replies from multiple sockpuppet HN accounts, going all the way back to at least 2013. I'm not letting this go.

@dang you want to weigh in here?

Not really sure how you have a productive conversation when one party says that not only will they consider that anyone who disagrees with them is acting on bad faith, but they intend to disregard all rules and circumvent any bans.

Anyway it's pretty obvious that talking about this topic is completely pointless so I'm going to quit for now because I'm not actually a sock puppet or a paid shill or whatever, I'm just a human being who has a differing opinion.

Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#16

Post by sndgndgndgndy »

apical_dendrite wrote: post #15
sndgndgndgndy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and if you ban me I'll make a new account on a fresh IP. I've seen IDF and Hasbara types posting literal copy-pasted verbatim-identical shill replies from multiple sockpuppet HN accounts, going all the way back to at least 2013. I'm not letting this go.

@dang you want to weigh in here? Not really sure how you have a productive conversation when one party says that not only will they consider that anyone who disagrees with them is acting on bad faith, but they intend to disregard all rules and circumvent any bans. Anyway it's pretty obvious that talking about this topic is completely pointless so I'm going to quit for now because I'm not actually a sock puppet or a p…

The only reason Israeli government influence operations persist on social media is because they manipulate and exploit site moderation to their advantage.

Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#17

Post by notarget137 »

carefulfungi wrote: post #5

Future (and current) presidents seem unlikely to be encumbered by laws. They can spend or not spend the budget. They can fire and effectively disable lawful commissions. They are immune from criminal proceedings. They can have any personal financial interests. They can accept large gifts. They can tear down national monuments. Really makes following Congress and laws a lot less informative. ;-)

And now everybody screams that Putin is bad.

Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#18

Post by dang »

sndgndgndgndy wrote: post #14
apical_dendrite wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote the HN guidelines: > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

No, and if you ban me I'll make a new account on a fresh IP. I've seen IDF and Hasbara types posting literal copy-pasted verbatim-identical shill replies from multiple sockpuppet HN accounts, going all the way back to at least 2013. I'm not letting this go.

Links? I'd like to see examples of the posts and accounts you have in mind.

Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#19

Post by sndgndgndgndy »

dang wrote: post #18
sndgndgndgndy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and if you ban me I'll make a new account on a fresh IP. I've seen IDF and Hasbara types posting literal copy-pasted verbatim-identical shill replies from multiple sockpuppet HN accounts, going all the way back to at least 2013. I'm not letting this go.

Links? I'd like to see examples of the posts and accounts you have in mind.

The particularly egregious instance I'm thinking of from back in 2013 would link back to my doxxable info, so unfortunately you'll have to take my word for it. Disappointing, I know, but it's not worth leaking anything when dealing with these vicious amoral scumbags. I do suggest at least familiarizing yourself with the scope of Hasbara's efforts on social media sites like and HN and reddit, however, as that is public information.

Edit: looks like I actually had the foresight to use a throwaway in 2014, so there's no doxxable info: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8406178

@dang please see this

Re: Section 219, the US-Israel Military Merger, Would Thwart American Democracy

#20

Post by bryanlarsen »

notarget137 wrote: post #17
carefulfungi wrote: post #5

Future (and current) presidents seem unlikely to be encumbered by laws. They can spend or not spend the budget. They can fire and effectively disable lawful commissions. They are immune from criminal proceedings. They can have any personal financial interests. They can accept large gifts. They can tear down national monuments. Really makes following Congress and laws a lot less informative. ;-)

And now everybody screams that Putin is bad.

False equivalence is what enabled the Trump presidency. "All politicians are corrupt liars, therefore we'll elect the one who tells us the lies we like".

Corruption and evil are not binary, they're shades of grey. Trump might be bad, but he's not poisoning his opponents or throwing them out windows.

If all politicians are evil, the goal should be to elect the least-evil one.

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