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Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

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Re: Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

#11

Post by eigenspace »

master_crab wrote: post #10
eigenspace wrote: post #8

It's pretty interesting that Apple was so quick to get to industry-leading status on their CPUs, but their GPUs are still in a state where they won't match Nvidia's GPUs from 2024 until at least next year, and will need a significantly bigger chip to do so. Similar story with Qualcomm but to a lesser degree (both on the CPU and GPU side). I wonder why that is. Lack of priority? Legitimately harder problem to solve? E…

The M-series are ARM chips based on the A series from the iPhones. Therefore Apple had ten years of chip design (plus the prior decades of ARM history) to rely on. The GPUs and modems were a much more recent effort. (My take. happy to be corrected by someone with chip design experience who can comment.)

The iPhones had GPUs too. As far as I'm aware, the GPU design in the M-series chips are directly descended from the iPhone GPU in the exact same way the CPU is.

Re: Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

#12

Post by eigenspace »

segmondy wrote: post #4

sure, i'll believe it when i see it. all i see from the article is a marketing campaign for folks to buy their stock. we don't even have the m5 we wanted, and we are talking about m7 and m8s?

I mean, yeah sure, we should wait and see what actually comes out, but I'm not sure I really see much reason to be skeptical.

Blackwell came out in 2024 on n4p. This article is claiming that Apple hopes to get into the same ballpark of performance as a Blackwell GPU with an M7 Ultra, which at the absolute earliest would release in 2027, but more likely 2028 or 2029, and would consist of two absolutely massive M7 Max GPUs stapled together, for a total die area bigger than a 5090, but on a smaller more advanced node.

Honestly, if they can't release something that big by 2028 that's at least competitive with a 5080, it'd be extremely embarrassing for them.

Re: Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

#13

Post by chocochunks »

eigenspace wrote: post #11
master_crab wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M-series are ARM chips based on the A series from the iPhones. Therefore Apple had ten years of chip design (plus the prior decades of ARM history) to rely on. The GPUs and modems were a much more recent effort. (My take. happy to be corrected by someone with chip design experience who can comment.)

The iPhones had GPUs too. As far as I'm aware, the GPU design in the M-series chips are directly descended from the iPhone GPU in the exact same way the CPU is.

Prior to the A11 chip they used PowerVR designed GPUs. They weren't done in house.

Re: Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

#14

Post by nxtfari »

eigenspace wrote: post #8

It's pretty interesting that Apple was so quick to get to industry-leading status on their CPUs, but their GPUs are still in a state where they won't match Nvidia's GPUs from 2024 until at least next year, and will need a significantly bigger chip to do so. Similar story with Qualcomm but to a lesser degree (both on the CPU and GPU side). I wonder why that is. Lack of priority? Legitimately harder problem to solve? E…

Apple (and the ARM ecosystem as a whole) has never really needed massive GPU compute before, it’s always been about power efficiency and just enough GPU oomph to make UI fluid. Even historic Mac Pro workloads never really needed tons of GPU prowess, the heaviest power users were primarily taxing video encode/decode and 2D raster effects (Adobe Suite etc) so that’s what they focused on. By contrast NVIDIA’s entire game has been raw GPU power for decades. M1 Max was really prescient in hindsight and has set the stage for, all things considered, Apple to be not as far behind as it could have been today.

Re: Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

#15

Post by SanDiegoSun »

master_crab wrote: post #10
eigenspace wrote: post #8

It's pretty interesting that Apple was so quick to get to industry-leading status on their CPUs, but their GPUs are still in a state where they won't match Nvidia's GPUs from 2024 until at least next year, and will need a significantly bigger chip to do so. Similar story with Qualcomm but to a lesser degree (both on the CPU and GPU side). I wonder why that is. Lack of priority? Legitimately harder problem to solve? E…

The M-series are ARM chips based on the A series from the iPhones. Therefore Apple had ten years of chip design (plus the prior decades of ARM history) to rely on. The GPUs and modems were a much more recent effort. (My take. happy to be corrected by someone with chip design experience who can comment.)

I would argue their architecture choices long term proved to be prescient (RISC, ARM, etc) and securing TSMC production capacity (beating competitors to the punch) aided them as well.

Re: Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

#16

Post by eigenspace »

chocochunks wrote: post #13
eigenspace wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhones had GPUs too. As far as I'm aware, the GPU design in the M-series chips are directly descended from the iPhone GPU in the exact same way the CPU is.

Prior to the A11 chip they used PowerVR designed GPUs. They weren't done in house.

Ah I see, good to know.

Re: Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

#17

Post by datakan »

eigenspace wrote: post #12
segmondy wrote: post #4

sure, i'll believe it when i see it. all i see from the article is a marketing campaign for folks to buy their stock. we don't even have the m5 we wanted, and we are talking about m7 and m8s?

I mean, yeah sure, we should wait and see what actually comes out, but I'm not sure I really see much reason to be skeptical. Blackwell came out in 2024 on n4p. This article is claiming that Apple hopes to get into the same ballpark of performance as a Blackwell GPU with an M7 Ultra, which at the absolute earliest would release in 2027, but more likely 2028 or 2029, and would consist of two absolutely massive M7 Max…

I don't think they care much about GPU's. They never did in the past, thats why you dont get nVidia in a Mac. Apple was happy with Intel graphics until they went M series chips. They just never cared about gaming at all.

For AI purposes that may change but I doubt it.

Re: Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

#18

Post by eigenspace »

nxtfari wrote: post #14
eigenspace wrote: post #8

It's pretty interesting that Apple was so quick to get to industry-leading status on their CPUs, but their GPUs are still in a state where they won't match Nvidia's GPUs from 2024 until at least next year, and will need a significantly bigger chip to do so. Similar story with Qualcomm but to a lesser degree (both on the CPU and GPU side). I wonder why that is. Lack of priority? Legitimately harder problem to solve? E…

Apple (and the ARM ecosystem as a whole) has never really needed massive GPU compute before, it’s always been about power efficiency and just enough GPU oomph to make UI fluid. Even historic Mac Pro workloads never really needed tons of GPU prowess, the heaviest power users were primarily taxing video encode/decode and 2D raster effects (Adobe Suite etc) so that’s what they focused on. By contrast NVIDIA’s entire gam…

I guess I just don't really buy your argument, because if their CPUs had turned out poorly, you could have applied the same argument to their CPUs instead of the GPUs.

Another user though pointed out that they didn't actually design the GPU until the A11, so perhaps it really is just a lack of in house experience.

Re: Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

#19

Post by SanDiegoSun »

segmondy wrote: post #4

sure, i'll believe it when i see it. all i see from the article is a marketing campaign for folks to buy their stock. we don't even have the m5 we wanted, and we are talking about m7 and m8s?

Do you really think tech gossip on capability pointing to advancements >2 years out is driving stocks? I'm sure analysts will take note, but this is just noise in a sea of sound.
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