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Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

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Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#241

Post by forinti »

archagon wrote: post #218
forinti wrote: post #11

Its a common occurrence for families to take in poor girls to do house work in exchange for food and lodging. And with the insidious nature of Brazilian racism, they will pretend that she is part of the family. They might even take her on vacations (to work, of course). If you grow up with this mentality it might even be hard for you to see the injustice. Brazil abolished slavery in 1888, the last country in the Amer…

Not Brazil — Mexico — but the movie Roma does an amazing job at dissecting this sort of dynamic.

If you found that movie interesting, check out The Second Mother (Que Horas ela Volta?) which is a Brazilian movie about a maid and her relationship with the middle class family that employs her.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#242

Post by amunozo »

anonym29 wrote: post #22
amunozo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not anti-White racist, but facts. It is white abusing black, not the other way around. How can you have the skin so thin with something like this? For fuck sake.

>Statistics suggest >facts Statistical inference is not established fact. I'm not defending parent comment above, but to be clear, it's not actually established as a fact that "Maria" was black, right? "Maria" isn't even her real name.

The family exploiting the woman was, in fact, white, independent of her skin colour.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#243

Post by 59percentmore »

argentinian wrote: post #225
oblio wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in democracies, voting can be distorted. Gerrymandering, lobbying, revolving doors, plain old bribes, etc.

So, corruption is the problem, not inequality.

Corruption is a enabled by inequality.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#244

Post by 59percentmore »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #176
59percentmore wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logically-speaking, poverty can't exist without inequality. It's a condition of "want" that requires others to "have". Practically-speaking, inequality is insidious because it enables violations of rights and unjust denial of opportunity even when poverty has been eradicated. Cold comfort, to the middle-class family of people mowed down by a rich motorist who faces negligible jail time because the money they can spen…

No. Poverty is not relative to what others have. Poverty is relative to baseline needs. So poverty absolutely can exist without inequality. Inequality has no moral characteristics. It is not "insidious." The fact that disparate effort and disparate circumstance lead to disparate outcomes is just that; a simple cold fact. That some people use their power or wealth to take advantage of others is a moral issue. But agai…

That's incorrect. The baseline need that poverty is calculated relative to is itself calculated relative to local conditions. Because inequality drives those local conditions, poverty cannot exist without it.

Your post is proof of the insidiousness of inequality. It allows for outcomes to be warped by the presence or lack of aggregated capital, without presenting a direct attack on outcomes. As long as you are able to limit the contextual scope, you are able to claim a "just world", even when clear injustice is extant.

It is then important to insist that the scope stay broad enough to involve all related implications.

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." This suggests that there is a functional relationship between the size of power imbalances and the amount of corruption that exists. It is not that some people use their power or wealth to take advantage of others; it is that inordinate power and wealth ensures that abuses will occur.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#245

Post by archagon »

forinti wrote: post #241
archagon wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Brazil — Mexico — but the movie Roma does an amazing job at dissecting this sort of dynamic.

If you found that movie interesting, check out The Second Mother (Que Horas ela Volta?) which is a Brazilian movie about a maid and her relationship with the middle class family that employs her.

Thank you! Putting it on the watchlist.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#246

Post by 59percentmore »

argentinian wrote: post #123
59percentmore wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logically-speaking, poverty can't exist without inequality. It's a condition of "want" that requires others to "have". Practically-speaking, inequality is insidious because it enables violations of rights and unjust denial of opportunity even when poverty has been eradicated. Cold comfort, to the middle-class family of people mowed down by a rich motorist who faces negligible jail time because the money they can spen…

There's poverty without inequality. In some primitive tribes everyone was poor. When natural adverse conditions hit some regions, also poverty was widespread. That the justice can be persuaded in a certain direction with money is a weakness of the system. I don't think you would consider equal and just that every person could influence justice. The problem is the justice system.

If everyone is poor, there's no poverty, just an ubiquitous state of subsistence. Poverty is always relative to some existing state of abundance.

>That the justice can be persuaded in a certain direction with money is a weakness of the system

It's a weakness of any system with overbearing inequality. Equal societies don't face this issue to the same extent because those wronged can mount an equal defense or offense as those doing the wrong, at which point righteousness should prevail.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#247

Post by argentinian »

59percentmore wrote: post #243
argentinian wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, corruption is the problem, not inequality.

Corruption is a enabled by inequality.

There is rich people that steal from rich people. There are many cases of corruption where poverty is not a factor.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#248

Post by argentinian »

oblio wrote: post #214
RetroTechie wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hallmark of developed countries is that they're even, mostly egalitarian and developed everywhere. Nope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_we... Developed-but-very-unequal, and less-developed-but-more-equal are a thing.

Wealth is a lagging indicator. Also, I have my own standard ( https://xkcd.com/927/ ): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

Many underdeveloped African countries have low Gini.

Do you prefer perfect equality in poverty, or some inequality and some wealth, a mixture of coexisting inequality and wealth.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#249

Post by slowmovintarget »

59percentmore wrote: post #244
slowmovintarget wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Poverty is not relative to what others have. Poverty is relative to baseline needs. So poverty absolutely can exist without inequality. Inequality has no moral characteristics. It is not "insidious." The fact that disparate effort and disparate circumstance lead to disparate outcomes is just that; a simple cold fact. That some people use their power or wealth to take advantage of others is a moral issue. But agai…

That's incorrect. The baseline need that poverty is calculated relative to is itself calculated relative to local conditions. Because inequality drives those local conditions, poverty cannot exist without it. Your post is proof of the insidiousness of inequality. It allows for outcomes to be warped by the presence or lack of aggregated capital, without presenting a direct attack on outcomes. As long as you are able t…

> Because inequality drives those local conditions...

That is not in evidence. You may be thinking of inflationary pressures causing the poverty income level to be adjusted upward. This is not a result of income inequality. It is a result of supply and demand.

> "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

That is an aphorism, not a universal truth, and holds zero moral weight. You may be judged as corrupt by what you do, not by what you have.

> ...inordinate power and wealth ensures that abuses will occur.

No. This is envy as evidence. It doesn't work that way. Your use of the word "inordinate" is also meaningless from an economic or policy stance. Who decides what is inordinate? What qualifies a level as inordinate?

There is only one equilibrium state with full equality: vacuum. In an economic sense this is where zero exchange of value occurs. It is system-death.

In a just world, you keep what you earn. You reap what you sow. When someone powerful steps out of line you punish them. If they do not, there is no reason to punish them. Pre-punishment because "they probably will" is propaganda from the dictator. We don't want that.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#250

Post by threethirtytwo »

rglullis wrote: post #231
threethirtytwo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same reason why a lot of wives who have spent years being abused and beaten by husbands end up still staying with their husband.

Maybe this is a sensitive topic for you, but try not reading more into the article than it's there. The decision was recommended by the social workers.

No it's not. I can see how it's recommended. It's the best possible decision for the victim. But the scale of the crime is still horrible.

I wouldn't pin judgement on someone elses recommendation nor would I say them being a social worker validates it even more than say some rando guy on the internet. Judge the facts.

Her life was ruined. That is huge. It is an epic crime. Not a mild thing.

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