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Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

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Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#151

Post by adolph »

infecto wrote: post #83
adolph wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy In this short essay, written for a symposium in the San Diego Law Review, Professor Daniel Solove examines the nothing to hide argument. When asked about government surveillance and data mining, many people respond by declaring: "I've got nothing to hide." According to the nothing to hide argument, there is no threat to privacy unless the government un…

So these are only being used on active calls. As I have said else where there is a line to draw on active calls and data mining. Having an eye on the sky for an active calls is a pretty nice use of resources and serves all parties. I am a big proponent that body cams should be required to be on for all calls. Not going to dig in either of those links because I suspect they go down the data mining route more like a fl…

> So these are only being used on active calls.

I see your distinction better now. The Reynolds essay speaks a little more to the issue at hand. Essentially the technology allows for scope creep. Previously the limiting factor for physical police surveillance was officer FTEs, which creates a lower bound for the conditions that predicate an "active call." When this constraint is lifted, then Prosecutors could easily fall prey to the temptation of “picking the man, and then searching the law books . . . to pin some offense on him.”

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#152

Post by rayiner »

ceejayoz wrote: post #150
rayiner wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It feels like that's a tiny challenge to your thesis. Your thesis is that poverty causes crime. I'm pointing out that many poor countries have low crime rates. The existence of political dysfunction isn't a rebuttal, it's an attempt to change the subject to something else. > One wonders if their homicide investigatory capabilities are comparable enough to compare such stats. Homicides are thoroughly investigated in…

> I'm pointing out that many poor countries have low crime rates. "We're very safe, we just violently overthrow the shitty government a lot." (And I'd note you're conflating low crime rates and low reported crime rates.) > Homicides are thoroughly investigated in almost every country that has a government. People get away with homicides more when governments have less capacity to effectively investigate the questiona…

> "We're very safe, we just violently overthrow the shitty government a lot."

Basically. Religious and political conflicts that cause people to overthrow their government are unrelated to why people rob and kill their neighbors.

> People get away with homicides more when governments have less capacity to effectively investigate the questionable deaths.

Homicide rates are studied by the UN, which does a lot of work to produce numbers that can be compared across countries: https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/global-stud....

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#153

Post by infecto »

adolph wrote: post #151
infecto wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So these are only being used on active calls. As I have said else where there is a line to draw on active calls and data mining. Having an eye on the sky for an active calls is a pretty nice use of resources and serves all parties. I am a big proponent that body cams should be required to be on for all calls. Not going to dig in either of those links because I suspect they go down the data mining route more like a fl…

> So these are only being used on active calls. I see your distinction better now. The Reynolds essay speaks a little more to the issue at hand. Essentially the technology allows for scope creep. Previously the limiting factor for physical police surveillance was officer FTEs, which creates a lower bound for the conditions that predicate an "active call." When this constraint is lifted, then Prosecutors could easily…

Agree, which is why these discussions need to happen. I am a big proponent of this kind of tech but also welcome the discussion to figure out appropriate boundaries.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#154

Post by ceejayoz »

rayiner wrote: post #152
ceejayoz wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pointing out that many poor countries have low crime rates. "We're very safe, we just violently overthrow the shitty government a lot." (And I'd note you're conflating low crime rates and low reported crime rates.) > Homicides are thoroughly investigated in almost every country that has a government. People get away with homicides more when governments have less capacity to effectively investigate the questiona…

> "We're very safe, we just violently overthrow the shitty government a lot." Basically. Religious and political conflicts that cause people to overthrow their government are unrelated to why people rob and kill their neighbors. > People get away with homicides more when governments have less capacity to effectively investigate the questionable deaths. Homicide rates are studied by the UN, which does a lot of work to…

> Religious and political conflicts that cause people to overthrow their government are unrelated to why people rob and kill their neighbors.

Religious and political conflicts often literally start that way.

> Homicide rates are studied by the UN, which does a lot of work to produce numbers that can be compared across countries…

And they'll very openly tell you it's tough to do.

For example, https://data.unodc.org/datareport/hom-victim.

Note, for example, that we have gender-based differentiation for US stats, but not for Bangladesh, which well illustrates my point. https://imgur.com/a/oc9yiuN

Even in the US we have disappearances that never get resolved. Or cases where there were dozens of witnesses but no one saw anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#155

Post by rayiner »

pibaker wrote: post #118
ceejayoz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We're bringing the paranoid old biddy HOA worldview to everyone, non-consensually!" is your upside ?

It's less like HOA and more like sharia law if I remember his background correct.

[flagged]

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#157

Post by [deleted] »

vrganj wrote: post #125
stronglikedan wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Thanks! It's important to be aware of how unjust an organization who's origins are groups that hunt for escaped slaves is, and how fucked up the way they treat black people is to this very day.

[deleted]

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#158

Post by [deleted] »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #107
rationalist wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That they're well aware of the well-attested and evidenced prejudices within society in the wide, and law enforcement in the narrow, that are sadly still prevalent in the USA? What does your oddly aggressive reply say about you? Other than your username is at best, aspirational, and good luck with that.

[deleted]

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#159

Post by rationalist »

ceejayoz wrote: post #127
vrganj wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That I'm aware of how big of a problem racial discrimination is in policing? > Black Californians are more than twice as likely to be searched as white Californians, at about 20 percent versus 8 percent of all stops https://www.ppic.org/publication/racial-disparities-in-law-e...

You'll get people going "well that's because they do more crimes" to this. IMO, the toughest study to argue with is https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2020/05/veil-darkness-redu... They studied traffic stops around the daylight savings transition, which is a perfect natural control for "could the cops see the car occupants?" When DST switches, the on-paper racial disparity moves by an hour. The Earth's orbit, obviousl…

Interesting, thank you.

Sure, some number of police officers are racist. I've never denied that, and it's sad, as no one should be racist.

In my experience, the ones who mention race first, are usually racists themselves.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#160

Post by ceejayoz »

rationalist wrote: post #159
ceejayoz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll get people going "well that's because they do more crimes" to this. IMO, the toughest study to argue with is https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2020/05/veil-darkness-redu... They studied traffic stops around the daylight savings transition, which is a perfect natural control for "could the cops see the car occupants?" When DST switches, the on-paper racial disparity moves by an hour. The Earth's orbit, obviousl…

Interesting, thank you. Sure, some number of police officers are racist. I've never denied that, and it's sad, as no one should be racist. In my experience, the ones who mention race first, are usually racists themselves.

> I've never denied that, and it's sad, as no one should be racist.

> In my experience, the ones who mention race first, are usually racists themselves.

How does one address racism without first mentioning its existence?

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