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Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

raymyers.org

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Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#611

Post by tomnipotent »

itsthetruth22 wrote: post #608
tomnipotent wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perpetually offended snowflakes This attitude is so precious to me - "Sorry guys, you can't criticize my criticism." > What Bun did here is basically a sabotage of Zig's reputation If Zig's reputation was so fragile that Bun migrating to Rust caused this kerfuffle, then Bun isn't the issue.

[flagged]

> and I believe it was premeditated

So in other words you're just vibing conspiracy theories and will believe whatever makes you feel better.

The only example of thin skin I see is the character assassination attempts and petty attacks by the Zig team.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#614

Post by itsthetruth22 »

tomnipotent wrote: post #611
itsthetruth22 wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> and I believe it was premeditated So in other words you're just vibing conspiracy theories and will believe whatever makes you feel better. The only example of thin skin I see is the character assassination attempts and petty attacks by the Zig team.

[flagged]

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#615

Post by [deleted] »

itsthetruth22 wrote: post #608
tomnipotent wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perpetually offended snowflakes This attitude is so precious to me - "Sorry guys, you can't criticize my criticism." > What Bun did here is basically a sabotage of Zig's reputation If Zig's reputation was so fragile that Bun migrating to Rust caused this kerfuffle, then Bun isn't the issue.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#616

Post by ubedan »

I agree that both Andrew, and the author have numerous good points, and yet I see things differently.

- I too am a fan of Andrew, and Zig, although all of my future plans currently are tied to Rust.

- I think the crux is that we are talking about 2 Vibe-ish AI rewrites, one to Zig, and another to Rust. I believe the investment in both reasonably minimal beyond the cost of tokens.

- I think that more adherence to a Zig style guide would probably have been very beneficial to the final work product.

- I have high expectations that the Rust rewrite will yield a more stable work product out-of-the-box. I am looking forward to the post-analysis.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#617

Post by zem »

LogicFailsMe wrote: post #497
sph wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there is a widespread belief in tech that 'removing friction' is a good direction to aim for. But you can have too little friction that completely ruins a product and the user experience. In game design friction very important; remove all friction and you don't even have a game any more, you might as well show the You Win screen. My favourite metaphor for it is sex: there is no sex without friction. What LLM hav…

Zero Player Games and Cow Clicker calling... There really, truly, absolutely, 100% is no accounting for taste...

brings back fond memories of idlerpg

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#618

Post by lolinder »

afavour wrote: post #513
lolinder wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you have to quadruple the number of tokens in your code base in order to make the Zig provably safe, you have 1/4 of the context window to do useful work.

So why not say that ? Perhaps because it highlights a flaw in AI agent workflows?

Because what they did say is true for both agents and humans. Which makes it a more compelling argument than just emphasizing the specific aspect of that limitation agentic workflows.

In one comment you are presuming that agents can just ignore ergonomic problems, which would be a kind of magic if it were true, and in the next you are saying that their inability to digest enormous quantities of unnecessary tokens is some kind of flaw that needs to be called out.

Enormous quantities of unnecessary tokens are bad ergonomics for anyone, agent or otherwise.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#619

Post by dnautics »

locknitpicker wrote: post #569
dnautics wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Zig people are really just concerned that maybe Zig itself is a DOA language because it doesn't offer enough over C I don't think anyone who actually uses zig thinks "it doesn't offer enough over C". Removing #define alone would have been worth it.

> Removing #define alone would have been worth it. If you reach out to any project manager and pitch the idea to rewrite a whole app from scratch because you want to get rid of #define, first you will be laught out of the room and second they will reach out to HR to get a PIP going because whatever the hiring bar they used to hire a developer you clearly are not meeting it.

nice strawman. we're obviously talking about greenfield developmen, and then, probably not in corposlop environments.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#620

Post by fluoridation »

mech998877 wrote: post #584
fluoridation wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Programming is done in a world of pure though, in a sense, so most of the friction already lives in your head It seems that way, but that's not actually true. A fully greased-up brain would produce just incoherent nonsense decoupled from reality, because it would lack all constraints that would allow it to judge the value of an idea (i.e. how possible and useful it would be to implement in the real world). The frict…

Your concluding example doesn't make sense to me but I think that it's because we have different definitions for what friction means here. It's also kind of hard to define in context. I would say that, within the Wright Brothers example, working with a battered, worn-out screwdriver is an example of friction (or, perhaps having to use a bit and brace instead of a power drill), but the act of building a new unsuccessf…

It sounds like you're not disagreeing with what the other person was saying then, you're just disagreeing with their application of the word "friction". I don't think it makes much sense to argue about the precise definition of a metaphor.
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