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Backtrack-Free Cursive

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Re: Backtrack-Free Cursive

#71
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Countries with independence days" aka former colonies.

Well I understood that much, but I'm not sure what link it could have with the shape of the x, especially since the English don't do it the same way as India.

It may depend on age - Marion Richardson used to be the standard for cursive teaching in England and that uses two-cs style.

Re: Backtrack-Free Cursive

#72
post #4

> Only й and э require two strokes Wouldn't the ф as well? > [for the x], I draw two mirrored c’s Isn't that what everyone is doing, or are we Frenchmen the exception? For reference if the author reads this, we write the latin x exactly like the cyrillic х, i.e. reverse c, bottom-left to top-right diagonal, normal c.

I learned to write x this way during undergrad - supposedly for fluidity and speed but I think I just liked the way it looked

Re: Backtrack-Free Cursive

#74
The point about interaction with undo in a digital inking app is interesting. Seems like with ML handwriting recognition, we could create a handwriting "text editor" instead of a drawing app that understands the semantic structure of the text and operates at that level instead of the individual stroke level.

I had some friends who worked on this for a while but didn't get far with it. It turns out it's tricky to design a general purpose system that adapts to users' handwriting idiosyncrasies and is fast enough to work in real time with handwriting with sufficient accuracy.

Some of that work is still visible in the ChromeOS virtual keyboard handwriting mode, but it's very limited - one line at a time. https://cursive.apps.chrome/ (the built-in note-taking app on Chromebooks) has some interesting inking gestures for manipulating written words, but doesn't have any semantic-level understanding.

Re: Backtrack-Free Cursive

#75
Great article! One perspective I'd like to share is that for me, the joy is mostly found in how beautiful the product is. From that standpoint, I don't particularly care how efficient I am at writing cursive. That said, this is a hand I would be interested to learn.

Re: Backtrack-Free Cursive

#76
post #51

I am not sure what country the author is in, because when I learned to write English in school (decades ago, and it was the language of instruction) very few letters required backtrack, pretty much only ‘i’ and ‘j’. I just looked at an image of the US Declaration of Independence and the same is true (the ‘t’ has a wiggle in the middle). Other languages are similar: for German if you look at either Kurrent or Sütterli…

How do you do t without backtracking?

Re: Backtrack-Free Cursive

#77
Latin Sütterlin (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausgangsschrift#/media/Datei:S...) has an x without backtracking. At first it looks a bit weird with the two loops, but I think they are exaggerated for didactical reasons. If you train a bit you can make it look like an x by making the loops thinner. Put differently, this is the "opposing c's"-method, without lifting the pen between the two c's.

Re: Backtrack-Free Cursive

#78

I like writing in cursive, but I don’t see backtracking as a problem. I backtrack quite a lot in Cyrillic, even in Russian, e.g. I always underline ш and write a line over т (which looks like m) to distinguish them (otherwise they look quite similar, see the famous example лишили лилии — you might want to google it if you haven’t seen it yet). I also normally write д as ∂, which breaks the flow. Belarusian Cyrillic r…

>I always underline ш and write a line over т (which looks like m) to distinguish them Having studied Russian in college, I assumed that all Cyrillic script included a line over the т, because otherwise readability goes to hell. Is my impression here based on (a) an opinion of my Russian prof expressed as a universal rule or (b) a thing that's universal in Russian specifically, but not Belarusian Cyrillic or other si…

not op, but from my experience overlined ts are a thing from a bygone era I'm afraid. my parents sometimes do it, but I don't know anybody under 30 who would write it this way. on the other hand I do sometimes see it written like a print т.

what you said about mixing up cursives is really interesting! I think the only case where I mix up mine is when writing a p instead of an р (the russian version typically doesn't have a loop).

Re: Backtrack-Free Cursive

#79
post #54

Wondering how many people are like me and hate writing in cursive. I stopped using it right after graduating high school (where it was required), never used in drafts after elementary school, and only ever used normal print letters in the university (and also included TeX commands because I was typesetting lecture notes later and was figuring out the optimal command set on the fly).

I’m surprised, as the whole points of it are speed and duration (less cramping, less energy when moving the wrist). Discrete lettering is simply slower because it requires more motion.

The point of cursive was make writing efficient with a quill pen. With a quill pen you run the risk of ink dropping off the tip if you lift it from the paper. Therefore cursive tries to keep the pen in contact with the paper most of the time. I've never thought of cursive as a speed tool. My printing has always been much faster than my cursive.

Re: Backtrack-Free Cursive

#80

Latin Sütterlin ( https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausgangsschrift#/media/Datei:S... ) has an x without backtracking. At first it looks a bit weird with the two loops, but I think they are exaggerated for didactical reasons. If you train a bit you can make it look like an x by making the loops thinner. Put differently, this is the "opposing c's"-method, without lifting the pen between the two c's.

That's how I was taught to do it, and I always found it weird because it looks like an S and a C, while in my language it's pronounced in exactly the opposite way. We don't have many words with Xs in Italian, so I probably never "simplified" it in my hand writing and I still draw it that way in the rare occasions I write in cursive.
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