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Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

raymyers.org

491–500 of 862 posts

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#491

I stand with Andrew. As someone who's been following Sumner's work closely for years, Kelley's accusations are very much true even if unkind. While the results are useful and cool, it a wankfluencer op from start to finish. I dare you to refute thus. And I say all this as someone who does agentic development 8hrs a day and someone who always pestered my team to opt for Rust and Deno instead of Node. Call a spade a sp…

>Call a spade a spade, the rewrite was poorly justified

In what world do you think they have to justify a rewrite to anyone outside their company? Bizarre mentality.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#492

There's so much good stuff in this post. Can't help to think of a recent HN post about most AI-generated projects being abandoned within months. Why? Because value of a project is not in the code produced. It's in the amount of battle-testing that code has seen. Battle-tested, mature code > fresh rewrite. Existing Zig codebase has seen X amount of battle-testing. Rust rewrite: 0 (except -I'm assuming- passing test su…

> There's so much good stuff in this post. The post starts off so cynical. I know a few people at anthropic and oai and the simplest explanation also matches my observations that they actually believe what they say. That agents will be doing the bulk of the programming in the not so distant future. They believe they themselves will be out of jobs at that point. They aren't managing some message and trying to teach th…

> They believe they themselves will be out of jobs at that point.

now THAT is cynical

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#493

There's so much good stuff in this post. Can't help to think of a recent HN post about most AI-generated projects being abandoned within months. Why? Because value of a project is not in the code produced. It's in the amount of battle-testing that code has seen. Battle-tested, mature code > fresh rewrite. Existing Zig codebase has seen X amount of battle-testing. Rust rewrite: 0 (except -I'm assuming- passing test su…

> Can't help to think of a recent HN post about most AI-generated projects being abandoned within months. Why?

Because we have a near infinite number of artificial monkeys figuratively typing at a computer keyboard and, once in a while, they spout out something that looks like an acceptable program.

But it's not acceptable: it's sloppy-pasta.

> Because value of a project is not in the code produced. It's in the amount of battle-testing that code has seen.

Yeah. I don't know if we live in the same world as some other HNers: I pay not one but three AI subscriptions: Google (through Google Workspace), Open AI and Anthropic. I'm switching from Claude Code to pi.dev atm.

I'm using LLMs daily. The person next to me too.

LLMs produce shit code. Pure unadulterated shit.

They're extremely useful for many things, including finding bugs. But, to me, they simply suck at fixing them. They write horrible, verbose, code full of bogus assertions and cases that are not handled or not handled correctly.

I do verify the output they produce: the number of time it "works" but I look at the code and see sheer horrors and say stuff like this: "wait, if you replace A by B like you suggest, shouldn't thing X that A makes be done too?". (it's a rethorical question: I know I'm right).

"good catch".

No. It's not a good catch. It's a totally obvious catch that any programmer who's been in this since more a few years (a few decades for me) would catch instantly.

Now if there's one area were they're semi okay'ish is for porting code from one language to another. At least you get a base to start from: if you're lucky. And I suspect it's only looks good if you don't know much about the target language.

Also don't be fooled: we're talking about a company with tens of billions investments that fully knows AI is not enough. You can be sure there are countless programmers fixing, behind the scene, the sheer mess that their AI (with unlimited budget btw) is creating. And then they pretend it's a 100% automated AI rewrite.

AI is not only definitely not enough: it's useful for finding bugs, it's a good rubber duck, but the more and more time passes, the more I'm appalled by the shit code it produces and by the errors they make all the time.

If I wanted to be facetious I'd say that at least we're already --how things moves fast-- long past the point were the kool-aid drinkers explain to us that these thing are intelligent.

It's summer 2026 and, as I type this, the SOTA models all suck at writing code.

Am I still deep into it? Sure am. For basically everything but coding (finding bugs, documentation, translation, generating assets, automating dumb stuff, ...).

Oh well, going back to pi.dev facepalming myself and rolling eyes. I know it's going to be "good".

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#495

What I have been missing in all this debate is substance. I don't care that Bun was ported to Rust; I don't care that Andrew wrote a hit piece about it; I don't care that Anthropic sells shovels in the gold rush. What I do care about is technical details. Jared shared some motivation as to why they ported to Rust, and I think they look valid (even if provided with sparse evidence). But I have not seen any sort of ref…

the best way I've seen it described is like this: Bun wants to move fast and breaks things, Zig forces you to move slow and carefully.

Bun wants to ship new features ASAP (a shell lang, sqlite/pg client, etc), so they'd really want stuff like memory management out of the way. Zig forces you to think and deal with memory management, lifetimes, etc. Rust is just a better fit like w `Drop`, and Zig explicitly won't add `Drop` or anything similar.

Just like I wouldn't write a SQL database in Python, Zig is not the right tool for Bun. So there isn't really anything that "should be solved in Zig canonically". I'd say it's more in how Jarred want the project to move forward. Move fast and break things.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#496
post #157
post #27

I think I got all the information I need to be able to judge that article from seeing that the author calls themselves a "Retrofuturist Software Mender".

[flagged]

Not sure what you mean, I have one account. Did someone else express this opinion?

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#497
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A drum I've been banging increasingly often recently is that having friction and time to work ideas over in your mind adds huge amounts of value. Vibe coded projects have this very specific, well, vibe to them where you can clearly see that the lack of time to digest has allowed the person to not challenge their own worst impulses. You can see it in the feature bloat, the lack of depth and polish in core features and…

Yes, there is a widespread belief in tech that 'removing friction' is a good direction to aim for. But you can have too little friction that completely ruins a product and the user experience. In game design friction very important; remove all friction and you don't even have a game any more, you might as well show the You Win screen. My favourite metaphor for it is sex: there is no sex without friction. What LLM hav…

Zero Player Games and Cow Clicker calling...

There really, truly, absolutely, 100% is no accounting for taste...

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is untrue. You can do a file by file translation by using clone and copy liberally. After you're done, you can incrementally introduce borrowing.

You can also do one by using `unsafe` liberally, especially if you're flexible about actually upholding rust's rules (as the bun team just did). But either way, you're still stuck with a code base that's going to need extensive refactoring if you want to actually take advantage of rust.

Which is still a step ahead of Zig, which requires an entire rewrite to have the tiniest shred of RAII or borrow checking. What's your point, that if we can't do everything perfectly in one step we can't do it at all?

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#499
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now if that's further migrated to safe Rust, put into production & gathered feedback from lots of users, yes then you have something. Obviously they have to start somewhere if they want to get to safe rust with a considerable degree of battle testing. So they decided to start with just a transliteration and go from there. I think the Zig people are really just concerned that maybe Zig itself is a DOA language becau…

I used to think there's a good niche for "better C" - and that Zig was the one language angling for that. A language that can be used in the same contexts as C, to do the same things as C code, in very much the same way, but with some modern features, some stronger guarantees and some helpful syntactic sugar? A welcome thing for embedded development. On the other end, Rust to me felt like "better C++" - outside the e…

> And, on the other end, C's warts, footguns and ancient quirks also matter less if you have an LLM plow through it.

Warts and ancient quirks, I can kind of see, but in what way have LLMs solved the footguns?

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#500
BTW a quick question...

Isn't it a case of "SVN trying to be CVS done right", as Linus Torvalds famously explained during his talk about Git at Google: SVN was doomed from the start because it's not possible to do CVS right.

Is this Typescript Zig any good? (don't know anything about it) Is it even worth porting to another language?

And why not an entirely new project? Ain't it an admission of failure of LLMs at writing new code? (porting ain't the same thing at all as writing a new project)

No dig at Zig: I just want to know if it's not yet another turd of the extremely turdy JS ecosystem.

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