Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How we can reduce traffic congestion

research.google

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 373 posts

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#271

Post by PeterStuer »

inigyou wrote: post #259
PeterStuer wrote: post #242

Next step? Maps Pro subscription 'blue' plan will guide you through the fastest routes, Maps Free users will be routed on the fast 'green' plan, but might ocasionally be diverted to other routes to 'balance' (free up blue routes') traffic under extreme congestion conditions. Yep, the virtual universal fast toll road option.

That's actually such a good idea I might have to apply to Y Combinator.

What is the minimum market share you need to make this work (a) assuming competition stays "neutral" and (b) assuming adversarial actions?

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#272

Post by dr_kretyn »

nostrademons wrote: post #83

I've noticed that Google Maps has started sucking a lot lately, routing us onto routes that take 2-4 minutes longer when a faster route is clearly available or taking us on nonsensical detours, and I wonder if this experiment is a reason why. There's a hidden cost to this, and that's trust in the mapping app. I've stopped using Google Navigation for routine trips where I know how to get to the destination. It used to…

Same. Though it's been happening for maybe a year? Or, at least since I learned where things actually are. I just can't trust the Google maps anymore! Many times I lost 10+ min because it took me through weird alley and then back to the main.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#273

Post by trymas »

quantumwannabe wrote: post #240
trymas wrote: post #156

How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…

If you believe that adding lanes doesn't reduce congestion, then you must also believe that adding transit doesn't reduce congestion.

1. Like others said - induced demand. You add one highway lane - more people will jump into cars to use it. You add tram/metro line instead - same people would like to use that instead of sitting in traffic jam, taking away traffic from the highway.

2. Continuing from first point - see linked graph in parent comment. Light rail has an order of magnitude capacity per lane compared to cars. For 20 lane highway you'll need 2 lines of light rail or 1 lane of "heavy rail" (as per graph). Insane difference!

3. There's a reason "one more lane" is a meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/one-more-lane-bro-one-more-la...

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#274

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

quantumwannabe wrote: post #240
trymas wrote: post #156

How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…

If you believe that adding lanes doesn't reduce congestion, then you must also believe that adding transit doesn't reduce congestion.

In many instances removing or repurposing lanes (road diet) decreases congestion much more effectively than just adding capacity.

Congestion occurs naturally regardless of capacity due to fluctuations in flow (jitter) more often than being over capacity (this is civil engineering 101). By repurposing lanes for dedicated turn lanes, bus lanes, bike lanes, and/or pedestrian walkways, you remove many of the triggers for jitter.

Synchronizing traffic (connected autodrive?) would do much more for removing congestion than just adding high over head capacity.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/other/road-diets/road-diet-c...

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#275

Post by mwexler »

I'm a fan of Beaty's work from 1998. Nothing I've seen has been as easy to implement: leaving space in front of each car creates smooth motion.

https://trafficwaves.org/trafexp.html or easier at https://web.archive.org/web/20260114173129/https://trafficwa...

https://web.archive.org/web/20251214172912/http://trafficwav... has some nice visualizations.

MIT got more press when they "rediscovered" this in 2017:

https://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/Traffic_Flow_Animation

I'm a car fan, so I'd rather reward drivers for optimal behaviors vs broad car-reductions. I'll probably turn out to be on the wrong side, but maybe we'll find a good compromise.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#276

Post by philipallstar »

simondotau wrote: post #206
trymas wrote: post #156

How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…

People will generally choose whichever mode of transport is most convenient and cost-effective, based on how they rationally (or irrationally) weigh various factors. If every road were free of traffic, every destination had unlimited parking at the door, everyone already owned a car, and driving carried no direct or indirect costs, almost everyone would drive everywhere. The only way to shift people onto public trans…

Making driving worse instead of making public transport better is such a public sector-brained take.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#277

Post by philipallstar »

zarzavat wrote: post #231
simondotau wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will generally choose whichever mode of transport is most convenient and cost-effective, based on how they rationally (or irrationally) weigh various factors. If every road were free of traffic, every destination had unlimited parking at the door, everyone already owned a car, and driving carried no direct or indirect costs, almost everyone would drive everywhere. The only way to shift people onto public trans…

> If every road were free of traffic, every destination had unlimited parking at the door, everyone already owned a car, and driving carried no direct or indirect costs, almost everyone would drive everywhere. What kind of nonsense is this? People take public transport it's better than driving. You don't need to expend mental cycles focusing on the road, you can do something else while you're on the go: chat to frien…

> People take public transport it's better than driving

Public transport is also much more expensive, particularly when you have more than one person in the vehicle, even with loads of tax added to car fuel, doesn't depart from your house or arrive at your destination, and means you can't take much stuff with you.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#279

Post by thaumasiotes »

inigyou wrote: post #249
quietbritishjim wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If every road were free of traffic, every destination had unlimited parking at the door, everyone already owned a car, and driving carried no direct or indirect costs, almost everyone would drive everywhere. Even with that unrealistically idealised scenario, if you had similarly idealised public transport (station within 5 minutes walk either end, trains every 5 minutes) I'd still choose the train much of the time.…

> station within 5 minutes walk either end, trains every 5 minutes Describes large parts of London, Paris, Berlin, Tokyo, etc

Sure. Also Shanghai.

But that isn't an ideal scenario for public transit regardless of whether somebody tries to describe it that way. Very frequent stops ("station within 5 minutes walk") mean that your journey through the subway system will take a very, very long time. Driving can easily cut that time in half.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#280

Post by Tade0 »

mwexler wrote: post #275

I'm a fan of Beaty's work from 1998. Nothing I've seen has been as easy to implement: leaving space in front of each car creates smooth motion. https://trafficwaves.org/trafexp.html or easier at https://web.archive.org/web/20260114173129/https://trafficwa... https://web.archive.org/web/20251214172912/http://trafficwav... has some nice visualizations. MIT got more press when they "rediscovered" this in 2017: https://p…

This is one of those things which would work beautifully if:

-Everyone's creep speed was the same.

-No one figured it would be more beneficial for them slip into that gap.

Post reply on HN