Live data from Hacker News

Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

9to5mac.com

981–990 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#981

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Reagan-era "greed is good" thing never really died here (among other places). "Greed is good" is the MO everywhere on the planet now. Everyone I know in EU is trying to cash in as much as they can while the going is still good because they feel the ladder constantly being pulled from them (layoffs and wage stagnation everywhere, housing costs massively outpacing wage growth, etc). Either from scamming their com…

> Everyone I know in EU is trying to cash in as much as they can while the going is still good because they feel the ladder constantly being pulled from them Your friends probably aren't engaging in "greed is good" themselves, just responding to the economic conditions created by people who are engaging in it. In the American cultural headspace, "greed is good" refers to a very specific brand of robber-baron capitali…

>Your friends probably aren't engaging in "greed is good" themselves, just responding to the economic conditions created by people who are engaging in it.

Yes, which is why I said "Everyone I know in EU is trying to cash in as much as they can while the going is still good".

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#982

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once worked at a cybersecurity firm and they had a particularly botched rollout of MDM to Macs (which would regularly put the machine into an undesirable mode of 100% CPU usage plus max out upload bandwidth repeatedly trying and failing to backup the machine to some online backup service). I had work to do, so I simply disabled the MDM profile for the machine, installed an OS to my liking, and restored the apps I w…

> I then suggested I did get hired for my cybersecurity expertise, that I do take my obligations seriously, and he could just ask me to do whatever they were planning to do from the MDM console, and it would get done. He insisted that wouldn't be necessary since in his worldview the MDM was unbreakable and he just needed to reconnect to Wi-Fi or something. Which is hilarious. They've fixed (or at least made it more r…

This was an Intel with a firmware password. How to do it is an exercise left to the reader.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#983
post #954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, this is essentially the basis of capitalism. Corporations are just people, folks, spread the knowledge and we all get richer. The best corporations I worked at had people dedicated to reverse engineering competitor products and were deeply steeped in the market, the worst were those where product just cared about making their bosses happy.

Reverse engineering is not the same as this.

It isn't, but it is also still (mostly) illegal too.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#984

OpenAI are really starting to look and smell like “the bad guys” in the industry.

Starting? Did you just connect to the Internet?

Yeah, whatever small amount of Koolaid I was excited to drink went out the window when they ditched the charity angle. A broken clock's right twice a day and Musk is right about that.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#985
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to disappoint you, but no you cannot live "comfortably" in "poor countries" for $100,000 for "years". Well, unless you mean like two years. I lived across South East Asia for more than decade and now live here full time. I have to live on around $20,000 / year most of the time since starting my company. And I do not live anywhere close to what average US / EU citizen will call "comfortable" let alone people fro…

If "poor country" includes "places US foreigners won't go" than you sure as shit can survive longer than 2 years. For example, Thailand would be 2 years like you say. Neighboring Burma/Myanmar would be EASILY 5 years, possibly 10 depending on how long the civil war goes. That's assuming you don't work and live in the capital Yangon.

Sure man. And for Syria or South Sudan $95,000 is enough to live there for the rest of your life, but I'll pass on this opportunity.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#986
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t the first time something like this happens and I always wonder how are these seemingly smart people earning good money so dumb.

"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." - Steve Jobs

When an artist "steals" there are two paintings on the wall, I don't think the business secrets work that way.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#987
post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen an uptick in these types of comment on HN - vague ominous sounding attacks on Anthropic. It honestly seems like a coordinated PR effort from OpenAI folks to “both sides” the companies. Which would, if true, be a further indictment of the culture at OpenAI.

You sound like a cigarette company rep. "I've seen an uptick in vague ominous attacks on Marlboro saying that our products kill people. This must be a coordinated PR effort from ." Or perhaps, Anthropic is a dangerous company and people have a duty to call it out? Trust me when I say you don't want to live in a world where they win the AI race (if that wasn't already blatantly obvious). Here's a nice little list of s…

> You sound like a cigarette company rep.

> "I've seen an uptick in vague ominous attacks on Marlboro saying that our products kill people.

Then don’t vaguepost.

> Trust me when I say you don't want to live in a world where they win the AI race (if that wasn't already blatantly obvious).

They’re not perfect, but they’re the best organization in the running (with the second best person at the helm after Demis). The rest of the field isn’t close.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#988
post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the same clean room technique used for code bases.

The fair use concept applies to any copyrighted material, I suppose. BTW, maybe OpenAI can build on this their defence line. If they prove in court that the materials they got from Apple have never been used for design of products, and OpenAI only collected some linguistic statistics from the docs (as we know, training LLM is concepfually no different from calculating word frequencies), which does not violate copyrig…

this would be some crazy landmark ruling opening the door to IP clean rooming of every IP, which means companies will no longer file IPs and keep it secret to delaying the inevitable

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#989
post #956
post #916

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean a lot of people work for companies that do unethical things to their customers all day, why would the company expect ethical treatment back?

A does unethical things to B, therefore I can do unethical things to A. This clearly doesn't work as an argument if A and B are people. Seems like classic 'two wrongs make a right' reasoning.

It's more of there has to be some kind of external enforcement or you turn into a low trust 'I got mine' society. Modern capitalism says companies should strip mine everything from human resources to the literal earth don't be surprised when their workers treat them the same way.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#990

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

You will be flagged as untrustworthy in any IT/dev role and rightly so. If any employer gets associated with them and they handle customer data, trust in any of your privacy promises will be gone.

As a dev you are often confronted with confidential data, so you should deal with it in a different way.

Post reply on HN