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Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
81–90 of 862 posts
Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of those products are from big companies who seem to be struggling the most. Software does not solve bureaucracy. As an indie engineer, I have absolutely no doubt what I am doing myself. But that change does not mean my products will become popular. That is a lot beyond software. Also, the tooling is just barely 1.5 years old and people are already asking for world-changing results. All the while totally ignori…
I kind of disagree that asking for world changing results is setting the bar too high, people’s claims about their personal experience are that the world changing results are already here, productivity has been multiplied and costs have been reduced by some factor, and AFAICT everyone is using these tools, with many reporting a similar experience. The fact that people’s personal experience using the tool don’t cohere…
The key word is "already". I myself absolutely expect world changing results. But that will need time. I can only say what I know. My own experiments in building nocodo, a coding agent are 12-13 years old. Pre-LLM. I used template based code generation and related ideas. Template processors and what not. nocodo.com is with me since 2013 maybe, you can verify.
I am a software engineer, most of my experiments are on GitHub. I would not have ventured into building the UI framework before LLMs.
And this is what bothers me - people are not looking at the generated software. Indies like us are experimenting like crazy. I live far outside the tech scene, in a small Himalayan village. But I resonate so much with the experiments, the methods, harness engineering and so many other topics. I see the benefits in how ambitious my projects are becoming.
I teach an online course on coding agents as a co-mentor. 600 young professionals join each month for a 2 week course. The joy of people, who did not know much technology, when they create a simple project management software by just typing English does not lie.
We used to write software in a very different manner. The entire mental paradigm has shifted. Many of my friends and acquaintances are on the fence, still! Some are internally giving up - unable to cope with this change. But the change is happening - the tooling is only going to get better.
Give it time. That is the opinion I hold.
Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not weird considering what we’ve learned through this: the Zig project is driven by people with fragile emotions and egos who lash out at people personally when they feel threatened. We’d like Zig to be a project with steady and technically driven leadership like Rust, but Kelley has made clear (many times) it’s more of an egoistic vanity project like Elm, designed to cater to the emotional needs of the BDFL.
Calling them egoistic is quite a claim - do you have facts to back that claim with?
Yes, I’ll cite “the juicy grapevine” and that should be enough given the evidentiary standards people are setting here.
Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
It’s a huge stretch to call Bun’s post slander. It’s a relatively bland technical post with an extremely contextual negative opinion about Zig. I read both posts, and didn’t leave the Bun one with a negative opinion of Zig. But I did leave the response post with that opinion.
Yet one is technical and the one you actually got a negative opinion about a programming language supposedly isn't?
I knew it was gonna happen at one point, guess I didn't believe it'd happen so soon, but I still can't believe that nowadays people make choices about what programming language to used based on what semi-celebrity they like the most, and it's all about emotional arguments. What happened and since when is this the way people make technical choices? I feel like I woke up in an alternative universe.
Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
#85Did we read the same Anthropic and Andrew Kelly's posts? Anthropic is not in the programming language market; their post about rewriting Bun in Rust is full of technical details that led to improving the end product for their users. Zig's response is a sour opinion piece full of personal attacks. For context, I'm using Codex and have no interest in either Zig or Rust, so just observing this drama from the sidelines.
I'm a heavy Rust user who doesn't like Zig all that much. I browsed through the Bun code following Kelly's post, and decided to have Codex replace all my Bun usage with Deno.
Care to given an example of the egregious code that led to such a drastic personal shift?
Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
#86I remember the uber db migration post and I can't help but wonder if the tone of these conversations would be different for bun if AI wasn't involved. https://www.uber.com/us/en/blog/postgres-to-mysql-migration/
> I remember the uber db migration post and I can't help but wonder if the tone of these conversations would be different for bun if AI wasn't involved.
Another point of view is that, if AI wasn't available, pre-port Bun wouldn't have been such a total mess that even Fable couldn't unfuck it.
IOW, the Bun codebase was being vibed well before the port; if AI was not available, would Bun have been in such a poor state that a rewrite was even necessary?
Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
web tech - HTML, CSS, JS, and based/derived frameworks
Yes, but your reply has now also recharacterized my original comment. I wasn't being pedantic. I was saying that LLMs even worse at writing for the web than humans, and humans are pretty bad! I'm saying this as a web developer.
oh, it is subjective and depends on use cases, for most of my use cases in web dev , it did work really good
Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
#88Did we read the same Anthropic and Andrew Kelly's posts? Anthropic is not in the programming language market; their post about rewriting Bun in Rust is full of technical details that led to improving the end product for their users. Zig's response is a sour opinion piece full of personal attacks. For context, I'm using Codex and have no interest in either Zig or Rust, so just observing this drama from the sidelines.
> Anthropic is not in the programming language market; their post about rewriting Bun in Rust is full of technical details that led to improving the end product for their users Anthropic absolutely is in the programming language market. If/since AI makes rewrites to certain languages relatively easy, a success story will tie the given language(s) to the given AI company. Rust may have a tremendous success in the futu…
> I also believed the same after reading's Bun's post.
This doesn't even make any sense. The part that you're quoting[0], is Andrew commenting on the fallout from the blog post he made. How could you have thought something about a blog post that hadn't come out yet?
Also, if you are talkinga bout the post Jarred made, it was extremely charitable about zig: "Zig made Bun possible. I would never have been able to build this much in 1 year if it wasn't for Zig."
[0] "The other critical mistake I made with this post was failing to consider the rather obvious and important point that this might affect Zig users who knew next to none of these facts and have only the surface level understanding that an ex-Zig-user is getting trashed by the language creator."
Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
#89> Anthropic is actively campaigning to end software engineering I didn’t read further, this is just sensationalism at its crudest
What do you mean? It's literally been a significant part of their marketing.
Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Anthropic is not in the programming language market; No, they're intentionally in all the programming language markets.
Maybe. But they don't particularly care about one programming language over another. Just like Google might sell ads on (approximately) all the websites, but they don't particularly care which website you visit.
> Maybe. But they don't particularly care about one programming language over another.
I mean, they did buy a JS runtime, so surely they must care more about JavaScript and TypeScript than other languages, right? Otherwise that move makes 0 sense.
Maybe this part from their marketing post about the acquisition is just a straight up lie I suppose?
> Together, we’ll keep making Bun the best JavaScript runtime for all developers [...]