Presumably not something so simple as walkable cities?
Uhh but then what am I going to do with my 7 cars?
How we can reduce traffic congestion
181–190 of 373 posts
Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion
#182How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…
> here's a good graph
The trouble with this graph is that it assumes the buses/trains are full. It obviously doesn't apply to a bus with one passenger on it, which takes up even more space than a car.
From which we can observe the problem. Alice is at home and wants to go to work. She travels along a low density street for a few miles, enters a congested thoroughfare for a few more miles, then travels along another low density street to her destination.
She can't take a bus at the endpoints because she would be the only one on it, but if she took a bus only on the congested thoroughfare then she'd end up on the far side of it without a vehicle to get the rest of the way to her destination.
To fix this the thing you need before mass transit (by several years) is zoning rules that allow higher density construction in a higher percentage of the land area where people live and work.
Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion
#183How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…
I think most people get that non-car forms of transport is denser. The two main issues that stop people using it are:
1) Time: Taking a trip involving public transport is slower than a car. This is fixable in urban areas with some dedicated paths, modal filters, and very frequent schedules and that kind of thing but this takes up front resources.
2) Safety: It's not safe. Too much antisocial behaviour on public transport. Nobody wants to sit near loud or smelly people. In the worst case people get assaulted. Cyclists are more likely to get seriously hurt in a crash or have their vehicle stolen than cars. It's fixable but policing takes effort.
3) The demand paradox: "See public transport and bikes are unpopular" say the decision makers and don't put in the resources. The thing is the infra needs to be near 100% built for people to want to use it. It's no good if your cycle commute is 80% dedicated bike paths but 20% of it is riding next to trucks and parked cars opening their doors as most people would rather take a car. It's also no good if the trains run every 30mins, so on average your trip is 15min delayed. The politician would think "why would I double it if the trains are already under-utilised" but does not understand latent demand.
Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think Google should get government sign-off on every change to its routing algorithm?
You're acting in bad faith attaching "every change" to what the parent said. But this isn't that crazy? Most businesses require government approval for changes that have community effects... that's the entire point of government. Stuff like construction permits and regulation around structures, water usage, pollution, building architecture. Mining companies are required to assess environmental impacts. Companies maki…
When the government proscribes discretionary permitting to those items you mentioned corruption and scarcity follow. It is exorbitantly expensive and difficult to build a house, a powerplant, or a mine in this country. For which we all currently pay for in cost of living.
Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion
#185> For this study, the Google Maps algorithm was modified to prefer alternative routes with similar travel times and segment types, effectively guiding trips away from the pre-selected congested segments > Over a six month period, we adopted a city-wide switchback (also known as crossover) experimental design, alternating between this treatment and the control (unaltered) routing algorithm over consecutive days to app…
> let's just build more trains? "just" is doing a lot of work there. Trains are a very (very) expensive way to move people between pre-determined places. We can do a lot better than this in 2026.
Any examples?
Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion
#186How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…
Yes - when I read "both navigation users and non-users share the advantages of decongesting targeted segments", I wondered how long these advantages would last. It's widely accepted that less congestion will encourage people to travel by car more, which will soon eat up the gains ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Definitions )
> It's widely accepted that less congestion will encourage people to travel by car more, which will soon eat up the gains
This is not only not widely accepted but extremely misleading. The nature of "induced demand" is really that congestion suppresses demand. Which behaves in an entirely different way than the name implies.
If demand was being induced then all attempts to relieve congestion would be permanently impossible, which is nonsense. There are empirically places with less traffic congestion. Whereas if demand is being suppressed then an apparent capacity shortfall in the amount of 0.5X may really be a shortfall of X. Adding 0.5X then doesn't work, because congestion will remain until you add X, with the suppressed demand filling back in to the extent that you satisfy it.
In order to relieve the congestion you have to add enough capacity to satisfy the demand that would exist in the absence of congestion, which is more than the amount that exists now, but not an infinite amount that unconditionally consumes all possible capacity or efficiency increases.
Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion
#187How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…
Yes - when I read "both navigation users and non-users share the advantages of decongesting targeted segments", I wondered how long these advantages would last. It's widely accepted that less congestion will encourage people to travel by car more, which will soon eat up the gains ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Definitions )
In a situation like this, induced demand could "easily" (on a technical, not a political sustainable level) be combated by shifting subsidies from car -> public transport. Induced demand won't be taken up as readily if there is a significant monetary penalty for it.
Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion
#188How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…
I think most people get that non-car forms of transport is denser. The two main issues that stop people using it are: 1) Time: Taking a trip involving public transport is slower than a car. This is fixable in urban areas with some dedicated paths, modal filters, and very frequent schedules and that kind of thing but this takes up front resources. 2) Safety: It's not safe. Too much antisocial behaviour on public trans…
You're completely wrong on safety. Driving is much much more dangerous than trains by orders of magnitude.
I know what you're getting at when you write safety, but I want to be clear that this is not the same thing as safety.
Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think most people get that non-car forms of transport is denser. The two main issues that stop people using it are: 1) Time: Taking a trip involving public transport is slower than a car. This is fixable in urban areas with some dedicated paths, modal filters, and very frequent schedules and that kind of thing but this takes up front resources. 2) Safety: It's not safe. Too much antisocial behaviour on public trans…
You're completely wrong on safety. Driving is much much more dangerous than trains by orders of magnitude. I know what you're getting at when you write safety, but I want to be clear that this is not the same thing as safety.
Perceived safety is exactly what I meant. It's a marketing problem.
Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion
#190How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…
> here's a good graph The trouble with this graph is that it assumes the buses/trains are full. It obviously doesn't apply to a bus with one passenger on it, which takes up even more space than a car. From which we can observe the problem. Alice is at home and wants to go to work. She travels along a low density street for a few miles, enters a congested thoroughfare for a few more miles, then travels along another l…
I believe this is based on actual average usage, not by assuming the vehicles are full.