Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's like Microsoft banning Vim users that use Azure
It’s really not. Vim isn’t instrumental to Azure usage.
CC isnt instrumental to use Anthropic LLMs. Yet here we are.
Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
251–260 of 433 posts
Re: Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
#252Reality is- Anthropic is a tokens dealer. If they can hook you up for bigger spend -> they will.
We already know company is not making any profit. To break even they need ppl to use a lot more tokens AND pay for them premium price.
We also know LLMs dont give such a huge productivity boost do warrant spending of THAT size.
At this point you only wait for more and more shady plays.
Re: Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
now reealize that LLMs are trained to produce tokens and like the halting problem, cant be trained not to produce tokens and youll realiE the AI labs are the perfect essential capitalist and like cancer, will keep growing useless tokens until it kills its host. no amount of alignment will stop aomeone drom just shutting up.
LLMs might be trained to produce tokens, but Anthropic don’t have to price by tokens. If an organization is a ‘non-profit’ and they decided to design their pricing to be tokens-based, I get it. If a for-profit design their pricing to be tokens-based, I don’t know where are they drawing the line between profit vs benefit. That doubts makes it hard for me to be a customer. Disclaimer, I still use Claude…
tokens definitely measure compute.
Re: Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's easy to add using plugins. Sure, but you have to add almost everything, no? It deliberately only comes with read, write, edit, and bash. My point wasn't that you can't add stuff, but that I'd just rather use an harness that's a bit more full featured from the start. (Pi is a bit like old 3D printing where fettling the printer to work is a central part of the hobby. I'd rather just buy a Prusa.)
I'd like to understand what features you're referring to that are missing from base-install Pi CLI.
I know it's against the ethos of Pi, but I think a lot of people would consider a handful of things like a memory system, web search, subagents, and looping to be a basic/base thing they would add to every agent harness.
Re: Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it's always the same prompt, can't they have it pre-cached globally for all?
I'm pretty sure the system instructions are a function of your environment and not the same universally. That said, there should be a finite number of branches so still cacheable.
System specific stuff is probably quite limited, it can be a short dynamic segment at the end of the system prompt, perhaps.
Re: Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
#256[flagged]
Re: Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
#257Recently switched to Codex after 6m in Claude. Codex seems more open, it’s easier to follow what the model is doing and the approvals have a better UX. Overall, it just feels more transparent. Cost of switching was close to 0. I don’t like that Claude became more opaque around February, including the system prompts. 33k feels way too much.
I use both now and agree they're basically interchangeable. I appreciate that Codex is open source and OpenAI has explicitly said using the subscription with other agents is ok. OpenAI has been much more consumer-friendly recently.
I like Codex for allowing auto_review.policy (basically a prompt to the classifier on what to allow/disallow) to be configured rather than the opaque auto mode in Claude.
Re: Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
#258Sending 0k tokens would be a smaller number again. But then it might have no idea of what it is doing. I pay my subscription and get lots of tokens on good models - if I was paying per token I might care more.
In a pay per token situation, there is a huge conflict of interest with the harness provider and the token seller being the same party ... efficiency is less profitable.
I have accused claude code of trying to run up the meter on me and it confirmed I was absolutely right.
Re: Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
#259Sending 0k tokens would be a smaller number again. But then it might have no idea of what it is doing. I pay my subscription and get lots of tokens on good models - if I was paying per token I might care more. In a pay per token situation, there is a huge conflict of interest with the harness provider and the token seller being the same party ... efficiency is less profitable. I have accused claude code of trying to…
> In a pay per token situation, there is a huge conflict of interest with the harness provider and the token seller being the same party ... efficiency is less profitable.
Except there’s a competitive incentive to either use less tokens or make the tokens go further
Re: Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course it is. How could it be anything different? Clearly, that’s how these companies make money.
it's a very handwavey way to "explain" anything. Yes, they make money. But they have competition. And if someone runs out of tokens and switches to deepseek or just goes for a friggin hike in the woods, that does not benefit them. If they get a public image of a ripoff that burns all shit on trivial tasks, that does not do them good either. So there is a limit to this "companies make money" thing.
Sure, fair enough. Clearly, if they increase costs by too much, people will go to their competitors, but those competitors also make money selling tokens, so the whole industry is incentivized to inflate token consumption up to the point of driving people to the competition. And nobody is incentivized to reduce token count.
In fact, the one model with great price/performance is Deepseek v4 Flash and I suspect that they are subsidizing it deeply to get access to everyone’s prompts for training. We may find that they raise prices on the next version (v5) after they’ve mined the user data.