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Don't you mean extinct?

fabiensanglard.net

11–20 of 145 posts

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#11
post #5

"Ride the wave." Or don't. Most LLMs people are using to code are paywalled, and controlled by private, for-profit entities. This is fundamentally different than the past, and diametrically opposed to the hacker. If you're a hacker, which most of you are not (things have changed here over time), you will reject this.

If you're a hacker, which most of you are not (things have changed here over time), you will reject this.

You'll also recognize that the problem is not AI in general or LLMs in particular, but the proprietary entities that control the best models.

That's the part HN'ers seem to have the most trouble with. They protest AI qua AI, as if that's somehow going to help, when they should be fighting for independent development and universal access.

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#12

I mostly like this article but > Those who refuse to use an LLM will fall behind because they won't be able to produce as much Seems like a silly and needlessly aggressive take. Fall behind what? Able to produce "as much" what? I've never been evaluated on volume in my life. Nor have co workers who were severely "behind" ever feared for their jobs.

Just about every professional coding job I've ever had has had programmers eager to code more, complaining about how much rigmarole there is around making changes, complaining about constant meetings and endless bureaucracy around change management and requirements. Meanwhile business mostly saw programmer velocity and output as a problem and a business risk, as they struggled to keep up with the rate of change and kept stepping on the brakes.

Like realistically even without LLMs I output probably around 10x as much code working alone, self-employed with zero meetings or bureaucracy, than I've ever done as a professional programmer. My output sometimes rivals that of entire teams' I've been part of, mostly because I get to just code to my heart's content.

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#13

> I asked an LLM to write a Levenshtein distance function instead of adding a dependency to my project. Which you likely failed to review thoroughly, so may be subtly wrong.

On the negative side, the code may not work.

But on the positive side, no dependencies.

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#14
I think this is a flawed analogy. In the past when we had a new way of doing something that obsoleted the old way, it replaced it because it was an obvious improvement. I mean, stop motion is cool, but obviously there are limitations.

The deal GenAI offers is: the result will be mediocre at best, on average it will be slop, but it will do it much faster. Ok, that's a fair value proposition in certain contexts. We've always had a need to prototype things fast, and the tradeoff with a prototype is always quality.

However, we're living in an age where we have WAY TOO MUCH in the way of information byproducts, even before AI. How many people do you meet that are like "God, I just wish I had more software in my life!" Most people don't want more software, they want less software that works better. They want more quality and less quantity. It's like this in almost everything digital now. I sign onto Netflix and I can't find anything to watch, even though there's more to watch than I could consume in a lifetime. I live in abundance but I don't want any of it.

GenAI offers us an abundance of stuff we don't want or need (lots of bad code, lots of bad writing, lots of bad illustrations, lots of bad videos) at a cost of stuff we do not have in abundance (energy, attention, natural resources, jobs). It strikes me as a bad trade: lets transform the stuff we need into stuff nobody wants, while decimating our culture in the process.

Anyway, FWIW I do agree with his point that the job has always been problem solving. I use LLMs to solve problems, I'm not extinct. But I'm not going to pretend that I think this is a net win.

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#15
post #5

"Ride the wave." Or don't. Most LLMs people are using to code are paywalled, and controlled by private, for-profit entities. This is fundamentally different than the past, and diametrically opposed to the hacker. If you're a hacker, which most of you are not (things have changed here over time), you will reject this.

If you're a hacker, which most of you are not (things have changed here over time), you will reject this. You'll also recognize that the problem is not AI in general or LLMs in particular, but the proprietary entities that control the best models. That's the part HN'ers seem to have the most trouble with. They protest AI qua AI, as if that's somehow going to help, when they should be fighting for independent developm…

"they should be fighting for independent development and universal access". Well stated.

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#16
post #5

"Ride the wave." Or don't. Most LLMs people are using to code are paywalled, and controlled by private, for-profit entities. This is fundamentally different than the past, and diametrically opposed to the hacker. If you're a hacker, which most of you are not (things have changed here over time), you will reject this.

Even with locally runnable small "open" models you are relying on scraps of others. They are much worse at the LLM game and you don't know when they stop releasing the weights.

How can you go the opposite direction? Instead of using LLMs to produce more code, can you produce less, maybe higher abstraction code?

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#17
Did Tippett enjoy working on the Dinosaur Input Device as much as he did with his go-motion technique?

I see employability being discussed far more often than joy.

If your motivation was selling as many clothes as possible, then the industrial textile revolution was miraculous.

If you enjoyed knitting threads together, it was the crushing victory of mediocrity.

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#18

I mostly like this article but > Those who refuse to use an LLM will fall behind because they won't be able to produce as much Seems like a silly and needlessly aggressive take. Fall behind what? Able to produce "as much" what? I've never been evaluated on volume in my life. Nor have co workers who were severely "behind" ever feared for their jobs.

  127. A technological advance that appears not to threaten freedom often turns out to threaten it very seriously later on. For example, consider motorized transport. A walking man formerly could go where he pleased, go at his own pace without observing any traffic regulations, and was independent of technological support-systems. When motor vehicles were introduced they appeared to increase man’s freedom. They took no freedom away from the walking man, no one had to have an automobile if he didn’t want one, and anyone who did choose to buy an automobile could travel much faster and farther than a walking man. But the introduction of motorized transport soon changed society in such a way as to restrict greatly man’s freedom of locomotion. When automobiles became numerous, it became necessary to regulate their use extensively. In a car, especially in densely populated areas, one cannot just go where one likes at one’s own pace one’s movement is governed by the flow of traffic and by various traffic laws. One is tied down by various obligations: license requirements, driver test, renewing registration, insurance, maintenance required for safety, monthly payments on purchase price. Moreover, the use of motorized transport is no longer optional. Since the introduction of motorized transport the arrangement of our cities has changed in such a way that the majority of people no longer live within walking distance of their place of employment, shopping areas and recreational opportunities, so that they HAVE TO depend on the automobile for transportation. Or else they must use public transportation, in which case they have even less control over their own movement than when driving a car. Even the walker’s freedom is now greatly restricted. In the city he continually has to stop to wait for traffic lights that are designed mainly to serve auto traffic. In the country, motor traffic makes it dangerous and unpleasant to walk along the highway. (Note this important point that we have just illustrated with the case of motorized transport: When a new item of technology is introduced as an option that an individual can accept or not as he chooses, it does not necessarily REMAIN optional. In many cases the new technology changes society in such a way that people eventually find themselves FORCED to use it.)
Ted explained this clearly https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unab...

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#19
post #5

"Ride the wave." Or don't. Most LLMs people are using to code are paywalled, and controlled by private, for-profit entities. This is fundamentally different than the past, and diametrically opposed to the hacker. If you're a hacker, which most of you are not (things have changed here over time), you will reject this.

You can accomplish quite a lot with smaller local models on reasonably priced pro tier hardware (not cheap hardware, but very attainable hardware for anyone making average software engineer money). Qwen 3.6 27B and 35BA3, Gemma 28B, and so on are incredibly beneficial even if Anthropic and OpenAI produce better options.

Failing that, GLM 5.2 is open weights, trades blows with current frontier models and widely available on commodity inference providers. And you could run it yourself if you do actually have the resources.

Re: Don't you mean extinct?

#20

I mostly like this article but > Those who refuse to use an LLM will fall behind because they won't be able to produce as much Seems like a silly and needlessly aggressive take. Fall behind what? Able to produce "as much" what? I've never been evaluated on volume in my life. Nor have co workers who were severely "behind" ever feared for their jobs.

Those times are passing and you'll sooner or later meet with new reality.
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