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Autopsy Study Finds Replicating SARS-CoV-2 in the Hearts of Long Covid

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Re: Autopsy Study Finds Replicating SARS-CoV-2 in the Hearts of Long Covid

#21

Post by rdmirza »

It's established that COVID can persist in tissue/blood - particularly in immunocompromised patients - and is associated with long COVID [1]. This abstract only reports a cut-off of >60 days from COVID infection, so it's hard to know how many of these deceased patients are truly outside the acute infection phase.

Although this research area is the most promising avenue for long COVID -- wrt biologic rationale -- the major anti-viral trials for long COVID were negative.

STOP-PASC trial [2] and PAXLC [3] were both 15-day courses of Paxlovid and showed no benefit across patient reported outcomes.

The real question however, is whether anti-virals have benefit in patients with active viral replication. Like only cases of long COVID can be implicated to viral persistence.

STOP-PASC did collect stool PCR at baseline, but every tested sample was negative. PAX LC later reported a exploratory biomarker analysis of 82 PAX LC participants did measure circulating SARS-CoV-2 S1 and full-length Spike, and wasn't powered to find a difference. Notably, spike presence doesn't necessarily mean active viral replication [4].

As an aside, mchusma's post is probably right. Viral disease is not being associated with more and more long term diseases. EBV is being linked to MS, cervical cancer to HPV, and so on.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S147330992... [2] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40188838 [4] www.medrxiv.org/content/10.64898/2026.02.24.26347001v1.full

Re: Autopsy Study Finds Replicating SARS-CoV-2 in the Hearts of Long Covid

#24

Post by ZpJuUuNaQ5 »

mchusma wrote: post #9

After seeing studies like this, and how the shingles vaccine reduces dimensia, I have become increasingly convinced that it’s bad to get almost any disease, even transiently. I used to think that it was kind of good to train your immune system (kind of whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger). I no longer believe that. I believe that diseases often cause unknown effects and it’s better to avoid disease entirely,…

>I used to think that it was kind of good to train your immune system (kind of whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger). I no longer believe that.

Well, that's essentially what vaccines do, anyway, except that they train the immune system without requiring you to go through the full disease. As a side note, I developed myocarditis after a COVID vaccine which damaged heart tissue and caused an AV block.

Re: Autopsy Study Finds Replicating SARS-CoV-2 in the Hearts of Long Covid

#25

Post by grayhatter »

ZpJuUuNaQ5 wrote: post #24
mchusma wrote: post #9

After seeing studies like this, and how the shingles vaccine reduces dimensia, I have become increasingly convinced that it’s bad to get almost any disease, even transiently. I used to think that it was kind of good to train your immune system (kind of whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger). I no longer believe that. I believe that diseases often cause unknown effects and it’s better to avoid disease entirely,…

>I used to think that it was kind of good to train your immune system (kind of whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger). I no longer believe that. Well, that's essentially what vaccines do, anyway, except that they train the immune system without requiring you to go through the full disease. As a side note, I developed myocarditis after a COVID vaccine which damaged heart tissue and caused an AV block.

I'm interested in your perspective, Do you think you're more mad you got the vaccine, or more greatful that you did because an organic infection would have done more damage?

Re: Autopsy Study Finds Replicating SARS-CoV-2 in the Hearts of Long Covid

#26

Post by Enginerrrd »

grayhatter wrote: post #25
ZpJuUuNaQ5 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I used to think that it was kind of good to train your immune system (kind of whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger). I no longer believe that. Well, that's essentially what vaccines do, anyway, except that they train the immune system without requiring you to go through the full disease. As a side note, I developed myocarditis after a COVID vaccine which damaged heart tissue and caused an AV block.

I'm interested in your perspective, Do you think you're more mad you got the vaccine, or more greatful that you did because an organic infection would have done more damage?

That’s impossible to know either way.

Re: Autopsy Study Finds Replicating SARS-CoV-2 in the Hearts of Long Covid

#27

Post by realo »

grayhatter wrote: post #25
ZpJuUuNaQ5 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I used to think that it was kind of good to train your immune system (kind of whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger). I no longer believe that. Well, that's essentially what vaccines do, anyway, except that they train the immune system without requiring you to go through the full disease. As a side note, I developed myocarditis after a COVID vaccine which damaged heart tissue and caused an AV block.

I'm interested in your perspective, Do you think you're more mad you got the vaccine, or more greatful that you did because an organic infection would have done more damage?

The more interesting question is whether he would have got the myocarditis if he had not taken the vaccine.

I think he would have. And might have died of COVID on top of it.

Re: Autopsy Study Finds Replicating SARS-CoV-2 in the Hearts of Long Covid

#28

Post by M95D »

mchusma wrote: post #9

After seeing studies like this, and how the shingles vaccine reduces dimensia, I have become increasingly convinced that it’s bad to get almost any disease, even transiently. I used to think that it was kind of good to train your immune system (kind of whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger). I no longer believe that. I believe that diseases often cause unknown effects and it’s better to avoid disease entirely,…

You can and should train your immune system, but not by fighting the enemy. Train it with a sparring partner - a vaccine.

Many people think that viruses are as benign as common flu (influenza), or common cold (rhinoviruses), because that what they experienced themselves and parents and schools don't do a good job of explaining just how bad some diseases are. (To "protect" the children, perhaps?)

But most viruses are not as "polite" as the flu or a cold. All herpesviruses (chickenpox, classic herpesviruses type 1 and 2, papilomavirus, Epstein-Barr, CMV) stay with you forever. So does HIV, hepatitis C (until recently introduced efective treatment), sometimes hepatitis B, some types (the bad types) of papillomaviruses, etc. There are so many of them.

And there are permanet bacterial infections and parasites too: Mycobacterum leprae (rare now), and M. tubeculosis (where I live most people are infected, but don't manifest the disease and are not contagious), Helicobacter pylori (something like 2/3 of all people in the world are infected), malaria (curable, but many people don't know they have it), Toxoplasma (infects all warm blooded animals including birds, and many people have it - in their brain - and it's permanent).

There are some viruses (like HIV) that insert themselves into our cell's DNA, and if they infect our reproductive cells, we pass them on to our children just like any other gene. It happened a lot in our evolution. ~10% of our ordinary human genome is made of viruses. Ancient viruses, no longer functional, but some of their genes we repurposed them and made them work for us instead. If you count transposons (not technically viruses, but they can/could move in and out of DNA, switch places, just like text cut-and-paste, taking with them nearby genes), then it's more like 50% of our DNA.

Re: Autopsy Study Finds Replicating SARS-CoV-2 in the Hearts of Long Covid

#29

Post by grayhatter »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #26
grayhatter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in your perspective, Do you think you're more mad you got the vaccine, or more greatful that you did because an organic infection would have done more damage?

That’s impossible to know either way.

I'm not asking for evidence, just vibes. I like to think I'd have the perspective to be grateful, but I also know it's just as likely I'd be searching for something to blame other than just the statistics.

Re: Autopsy Study Finds Replicating SARS-CoV-2 in the Hearts of Long Covid

#30

Post by apexalpha »

mchusma wrote: post #9

After seeing studies like this, and how the shingles vaccine reduces dimensia, I have become increasingly convinced that it’s bad to get almost any disease, even transiently. I used to think that it was kind of good to train your immune system (kind of whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger). I no longer believe that. I believe that diseases often cause unknown effects and it’s better to avoid disease entirely,…

I used to think that it was kind of good to train your immune system (kind of whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger). I no longer believe that.

Vaccines are a method of training your immune system…

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