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Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

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Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#101

Post by ronjakoi »

regenschutz wrote: post #88
runsWphotons wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely a figment of your imagination.

No, it's real. Every year, there are several news articles about berry pickers being abused, at least here in Sweden (not sure about the other Scandinavian countries). Here's [0] just ONE of the myriad of articles I could find, but there are so, so, so many more (and even worse ones) [1]. [0]: (In Swedish) Berry entrepreneurs suspected of trafficking Thai nationals, (2025). https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vasternor…

Similar situation in Finland. There have only recently been some consequences for the berry companies and reforms are underway. The pickers would come mainly from Thailand with tourist visas. This year a majority of the visas have been denied and the berry companies are throwing tantrums.

They've been engaging in illegal price-fixing, too.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#102

Post by manarth »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #52
mcdonje wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it operates like most corrupt systems, it binds the have-nots, but not the haves.

How can this be true? Probably the entire adult population gets away with hundreds of offenses per annum on average (judging by the total amount on the books). Even the most law abiding and most humble decile of Brazilian adults probably still get away with dozens of offenses per annum. That nobody cares to enforce at all.

    > "That nobody cares to enforce at all"
That's the point. When everyone is "committing crimes", you can select who you wish to enforce against. It enables corruption.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#103

Post by argentinian »

lordnacho wrote: post #89
argentinian wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you see inequality as the problem, instead of poverty?

Most countries we are discussing are richer now than a few decades ago, yet still have domestic servants. Those servants will be richer in a few decades but will still be in that situation.

Then I think that terrible labor laws are the main problem, not inequality

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#104

Post by phoghed »

assimpleaspossi wrote: post #9
Razengan wrote: post #3

> Although the family has agreed to compensate her, Maria, who lived in near-total isolation and without contact with her relatives, will remain with her employers What the fuck? Why did the law need the family's "agreement"?? Why is nobody going to jail for imprisoning someone for 55 years??

[flagged]

Between the two of you only one is violating the guidelines. Their comment at least asks a question their are curious about. Yours just nags and tries to shut down discussion.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#105

Post by ricardobeat »

55555 wrote: post #83
t1234s wrote: post #25

I was talking to a doctor who went to medical school in Brazil and said it was normal for upper-middle class people to have a live-in domestic servant. Many of the floorplans for condos or houses include a servants quarters. They were telling me theirs cost around $12 USD a day which is not a bad deal.

The median income in brazil is 10X lower than USA. So $12 a day -> $120 a day. That's similar to what someone in the US at the bottom of the economic ladder might earn. We have the same thing, it's just that Americans want to have servants but don't want to see them, so there's an app barrier between you and the poor. Someone cooks your food, someone else delivers your food, someone cleans your hotel room, but Americ…

This is probably the same line of thought the families involved in the story have had.

Yet, the end result is still quite similar to slavery. Why do you suppose the servants stay, instead of living a life of their own? I think you’ll find the answer there.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#106

Post by timedude »

I see a lot of comments claiming that slavery was abolished. It was not, we just made the transition to another form of slavery, one where most people think they are free. In reality, they work every day while most of their earnings are taken from them by force every month ('taxation'). The well known slave Frederik Douglas was one of the first examples of this. Douglas made a deal with his master to do whatever he liked as long as he gave his master a cut. The same dynamic is now implemented worldwide. Watch the movie Jones Plantation. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt26964727/

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#107

Post by hylaride »

encom wrote: post #81
phyzome wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: The US still has not abolished slavery. It is still legal in the case of prisoners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

Prisoners are not slaves, because they are not the property of the prison or any other entity. It's called involuntary servitude. I'm sure the people affected do not care about the distinction, but words matter. It's also trivially easy to not end up in involuntary servitude.

> It's also trivially easy to not end up in involuntary servitude.

Look, you're not entirely wrong. But you're not entirely right, either.

In some states, the prisons are privately run and the prison labour is part of the profit motive. They have no incentive to rehabilitate and the states with these "programs" have some of the highest recidivism rates in the USA.

That also ignores the fact that some people are born into situations that make it far harder to live a "legit" life than others, and I'm not even talking about historical racism as part of that equation (which certainly does contribute).

I'm also NOT saying that prisoners shouldn't be made to work, but it should be outside of a system designed to exploit them.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#108

Post by 59percentmore »

argentinian wrote: post #78
Laurel1234 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a symptom of inequality. It will start happening more and more even in the first world if inequality isn't tackled and wealth continues to concentrate.

Why do you see inequality as the problem, instead of poverty?

Logically-speaking, poverty can't exist without inequality. It's a condition of "want" that requires others to "have".

Practically-speaking, inequality is insidious because it enables violations of rights and unjust denial of opportunity even when poverty has been eradicated. Cold comfort, to the middle-class family of people mowed down by a rich motorist who faces negligible jail time because the money they can spend on a lawyer is outside the scope of what the legal system is built to handle.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#109

Post by anon7000 »

timedude wrote: post #106

I see a lot of comments claiming that slavery was abolished. It was not, we just made the transition to another form of slavery, one where most people think they are free. In reality, they work every day while most of their earnings are taken from them by force every month ('taxation'). The well known slave Frederik Douglas was one of the first examples of this. Douglas made a deal with his master to do whatever he l…

Well, taxation is not “most of your earnings.” Not even remotely close. If we’re talking theft, maybe look at the companies reaping profits off your labor without sharing it.

I think your definition of slavery is highly insulting. Slavery is bad not because two people agree to have this profit sharing scheme as you seem to be implying.

Slavery is evil because one person is nearly fully and entirely controlling another person’s entire life, usually for the “owner’s” gain, without the other person’s consent.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#110

Post by aetimmes »

argentinian wrote: post #78
Laurel1234 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a symptom of inequality. It will start happening more and more even in the first world if inequality isn't tackled and wealth continues to concentrate.

Why do you see inequality as the problem, instead of poverty?

Because exploitation is a two-actor system and poverty is a unary operator.
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