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Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

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Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#261

Post by sgerenser »

usrnm wrote: post #205
fc417fc802 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't talking about fundamental research here (NIH, NSF, et al) we're talking primarily about students pursuing bachelor's. At least IIUC.

You need a steady supply of new grads to keep the research going. How many exactly is a different question, of course

How much of these new grad researchers have undergrad degrees in music vs. science or math? I’d suspect there’s very few of the former, and even then they got the position despite their music degree not because of it.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#262

Post by jfengel »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #223

I think the pure purpose of a university should be to mould students into critical thinkers and innovative mindset that would ultimately add value to the society so they can contribute back as tax payers to help the next generation. The cycle breaks if the university suddenly produces a group of people that cannot contribute in any meaningful way back. In that case it’s totally fair to ask where did we go wrong and h…

It depends on who gets to define "meaningful". There are a lot of things that I think are meaningful that you probably don't. And while many would say that STEM automatically qualifies, I don't think that really holds up to scrutiny.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#264

Post by nekusar »

The easier answer is to 'not treat academic loans the same way as a criminal courts monetary punishment'. In other words, quit treating them as non-dismissable in bankruptcy.

Or, if you use bankruptcy to rid yourself of the loans, you also dismiss any claim of degree related to the bankrupted schools you attended.

That would he a great way to balance bankruptcy with education scams. And yeah, most schools are scammy.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#265

Post by croes »

How does this work?

No education can guarantee you a certain income especially when there is a gap between start and graduation.

Before AI a degree in computer science was an advantage now management thinks is obsolete.

This seems of a way to definance and devalue education

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#266

Post by ericd »

delusional wrote: post #193
ryzvonusef wrote: post #140

The purpose of a college degree is NOT a job... but the purpose of a college LOAN is 100% a job, and it's very important to differentiate between the two. The whole point of the loan is to buy time; you don't want to wait for when you have savings to purchase the degree, you want to do it now . If you are not doing it for the job, then why the loan, what's the rush? If knowledge and prestige is all that matters, then…

> If knowledge and prestige is all that matters, then don't take the loan, take the scenic route, get your degree slowly as and when you have the time and money, and one day you will have something to look back at. Do you see no value in young energetic people being educated while their brains are still maximally plastic, and society get maximal value out of the education? Is there no value in handing over our knowle…

> Do you see no value in young energetic people being educated while their brains are still maximally plastic, and society get maximal value out of the education?

Eh, I’ve often thought that going to college would’ve been much better after a few years of building software in the workforce. I didn’t understand the “why” of going into a lot of the subjects I studied, they didn’t have much real experience to attach to in my brain, and retention was worse.

I think Waterloo’s mix of school and working is a pretty solid way to tackle this.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#267

Post by nekusar »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #252
HPsquared wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Student loans aren't your standard private sector loan though. They are a special legal category, which is why they can't be discharged in bankruptcy. All the usual borrowing standards don't apply either. No commercial lender would give that size of loan to an 18 year old with no collateral. The collateral is effectively a claim on the person's future earnings. What a crazy contract to have young people routinely pre…

> The collateral is effectively a claim on the person's future earnings Back in the Russian empire a person could buy themselves out of serfdom if they could come up with the money… which was difficult for obvious reasons. And this feels like a modern reincarnation of the system. It’s categorised as ‘ Unfree Labour’

Its the same too with renouncing citizenship.

If you have federal student loans, you are trapped as being a US serf. And with usurious interest rates, you will never be able to buy your freedom.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#269

Post by JKCalhoun »

croes wrote: post #265

How does this work? No education can guarantee you a certain income especially when there is a gap between start and graduation. Before AI a degree in computer science was an advantage now management thinks is obsolete. This seems of a way to definance and devalue education

What, this administration?

(That was my first thought as well: it's to take "the elites" down a notch.)

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#270

Post by croes »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #269
croes wrote: post #265

How does this work? No education can guarantee you a certain income especially when there is a gap between start and graduation. Before AI a degree in computer science was an advantage now management thinks is obsolete. This seems of a way to definance and devalue education

What, this administration? (That was my first thought as well: it's to take "the elites" down a notch.)

How do you conduct this check and be certain that the issue lies with the education?
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