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How to hide from killer drones

economist.com

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Re: How to hide from killer drones

#181

Post by pbhjpbhj »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #84
laughing_man wrote: post #63

After WW II German u-boat captains said they were never particularly bothered by dazzle camouflage. Ten years from now I have a feeling we'll get the same information from drone operators.

It's not camouflage for ships, it's so it's harder to estimate the distance.

Not just distance, class (ie type of ship), speed and direction too.

Having seen some freaky good examples, I'm not sure how it wouldn't work? It might not matter, but it seems to work (and I can't see how it wouldn't matter)?

For example, you see a ship on the horizon, you can't tell the class - so whether it's likely to be in a group, or if it's a ship previously reported in this area - you can't tell the direction, etc ... you observe the ship, now you can plot the direction, speed. The ship fires on you, now you likely know the class.

Re: How to hide from killer drones

#182

Post by psd1 »

einpoklum wrote: post #177
ponector wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a NATO-russia war of NATO is not taking a participation? You can call it NATO-Iran, or NATO-NKorea war as well. Ukraine-Nkorea war? At least there were direct contacts between their forces.

NATO is certainly participating: * It supplies most ammunition and arms and much of the equipment. * It funds most of the war effort, including arms & ammunition, salaries, covering some of the civilian budget etc. Total expenditure by "Western" countries in the period 2014-2026 is 380 Billion USD [1] and the vast majority of that is by NATO; some by other US allies. * Its members train Ukrainian forces. * It imposes…

You're not exactly wrong, but it's disingenuous to paint the expansion of a defensive alliance of independent nations in the same light as annexation of sovereign nations by military force.

For accuracy, replace "NATO" with "countries united in condemnation of Russia's invasion".

The iron curtain pushed west on tanks; it's being pushed back by choice. Russia inoculated citizens against its own propaganda by disappearing their friends and loved ones. Read Solzhenitsyn.

Re: How to hide from killer drones

#184

Post by bluGill »

beachy wrote: post #163
bluGill wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it actually becomes a problem, I start carrying my shotgun everywhere, but... Even in the US, most Americans aren't particularly good with a shotgun. Enough of us that most places could have a number of people that they just call. Wake up right now and get out because you might need to shoot something, but it's a dangerous job and I really hope that it never comes down to that.

There's a video of a Finnish clay target champion taking on drones with a shotgun. The first one gets him because he's unfamiliar with their flight paths. After that he does better but it clearly shows that you'd have to be an expert to take down a drone with a shotgun. Also there's a lot of air inside a shotgun spread, so even an on target shot may fail to disable a drone.

I'm reasonably good with clay targets. I would expect that if I was actually asked to take on drones I would need to do some practice on drones before I'd be good at them too. Drones are more expensive than clay targets but they're not particularly expensive and considering the situation I'd be willing to pay the price of a few drones to learn how to shoot them down down in a controlled setting where it's safe.

Shotguns have very short range: if I'm expected to be taking down a drone with a shotgun things are really bad at that point my life is alread in danger. if I hit I may save my life.

Re: How to hide from killer drones

#185

Post by iugtmkbdfil834 »

bluGill wrote: post #115
gattr wrote: post #113

Remember the "Black Mirror" episode "Metalhead"? (If not, check it out, no spoilers here.) I'm afraid we'll see something like this in the not-too-distant future. Now, a squad of soldiers, or even just one experienced rifleman, would prob. dispatch of such a threat quickly. But against (at most poorly armed) civilians it would be an all too effective terror/area denial weapon.

If it actually becomes a problem, I start carrying my shotgun everywhere, but... Even in the US, most Americans aren't particularly good with a shotgun. Enough of us that most places could have a number of people that they just call. Wake up right now and get out because you might need to shoot something, but it's a dangerous job and I really hope that it never comes down to that.

It would be surprise me if it is really true. It is probably one of the easier type of gun to pick up in terms of skill and shoot accurately. Still, 'shotgun minute men' has a ring to it.

Re: How to hide from killer drones

#186

Post by iugtmkbdfil834 »

ponector wrote: post #117
throwawaytea wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukrainian executed 100k Polish civilians not too long ago, but I'm sure now they are angels.

Polish estimates are closer to 20k, btw. And Polish forces executed thousands of Ukrainians as well during the same events. Also don't forget russians executed 22k Polish prisoners of war in 1940 and lied about it for decades. Germans killed millions of Polish citizens - but they are good people now, not like Ukrainians who are holding back russians? Russians who are casually invade neighbors once in a while and comm…

Hmm, it is mildly fascinating that it has to be said. Germans in government typically don't celebrate the adherents to the events that Poles were subjected to. Ukrainian government on the other hand uses lets call it something of an ambiguous framing to make it charitable. Similarly, Russia was saving Poles from WW2 ( all while effectively enforcing its particular brand of crazy upon the land ).

Now, Ukraine is absorbing Russia's onslaught ( and that is something Poles benefit from even if they don't admit it ), but lets be clear. They ( Ukraine ) are not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Re: How to hide from killer drones

#187

Post by iugtmkbdfil834 »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #104
throwawaytea wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukrainian executed 100k Polish civilians not too long ago, but I'm sure now they are angels.

You’re not a Konfederacja voter by any chance? I’m so fucking embarrassed to be Polish and hear this populism bullshit from Nawrocki and any other compromised russian shill. You know who killed our people? The fucking russians. Remember when the bad guys came from Berlin? The other bad guys came from Moscow. Don’t forget that. ——— For anyone unsure what this throwaway account is talking about: when he says “not too l…

Stop. The whole thing is ridiculous from simple historical perspective. Poland was razed down, pillaged, 'visited', 'saved', enriched and whole host of other euphemisms over the course of its hundreds of years of various types of existence by a rather long list of conquerors.

Sigh, it is not bad faith. If anything, it is bad faith to pretend past did not happen.

Re: How to hide from killer drones

#188

Post by tim333 »

srameshc wrote: post #42

This title scared me, not for myself but more thinking about how kids will probably need to learn these things next. We are such strange 'intelligent' creatures who have figured out everything but not to be at peace with each other.

The percentage of the population that dies from war has gone down over time though. Just needs a bit more work.

Re: How to hide from killer drones

#189

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

iugtmkbdfil834 wrote: post #187
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not a Konfederacja voter by any chance? I’m so fucking embarrassed to be Polish and hear this populism bullshit from Nawrocki and any other compromised russian shill. You know who killed our people? The fucking russians. Remember when the bad guys came from Berlin? The other bad guys came from Moscow. Don’t forget that. ——— For anyone unsure what this throwaway account is talking about: when he says “not too l…

Stop. The whole thing is ridiculous from simple historical perspective. Poland was razed down, pillaged, 'visited', 'saved', enriched and whole host of other euphemisms over the course of its hundreds of years of various types of existence by a rather long list of conquerors. Sigh, it is not bad faith. If anything, it is bad faith to pretend past did not happen.

Nobody is pretending this didn’t happen. Least of all the Ukrainians.

Re: How to hide from killer drones

#190

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

iugtmkbdfil834 wrote: post #186
ponector wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polish estimates are closer to 20k, btw. And Polish forces executed thousands of Ukrainians as well during the same events. Also don't forget russians executed 22k Polish prisoners of war in 1940 and lied about it for decades. Germans killed millions of Polish citizens - but they are good people now, not like Ukrainians who are holding back russians? Russians who are casually invade neighbors once in a while and comm…

Hmm, it is mildly fascinating that it has to be said. Germans in government typically don't celebrate the adherents to the events that Poles were subjected to. Ukrainian government on the other hand uses lets call it something of an ambiguous framing to make it charitable. Similarly, Russia was saving Poles from WW2 ( all while effectively enforcing its particular brand of crazy upon the land ). Now, Ukraine is absor…

> Similarly, Russia was saving Poles from WW2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...

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