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Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

theguardian.com

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Re: Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

#51

Post by BrenBarn »

SoftTalker wrote: post #25
mirashii wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is most likely a simple mistake or process breakdown I think this needs justification. My status quo is to believe that most times I have a problem when dealing with these large corporations that they've made any process for getting support or remediating what _should_ be a simple process breakdown is a labyrinth of steps to make it as difficult as possible to reach any sort of remedy to discourage you from ev…

Have you ever worked for a large corporation? Have you seen how bureaucratic everything is? It's the nature of the beast. It's not calculated, and not personal. It's a process scaled to deal with thousands or millions of people. That's why when I have a problem with my internet service, I never call, or use the website, or use the app. I go to the Xfinity retail store and talk to someone. I almost always leave satisf…

Maybe that means we shouldn't have so many large corporations.

Re: Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

#52

Post by gib444 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #48
dirkt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me supply an /s tag, just in case.

The sarcasm is the problem. In many markets the market is too consolidated and the consumer doesn't actually have an option that isn't a scam, but in those cases the solution shouldn't be to regulate the oligopolies while leaving them in place to buy off the regulators or weasel their way out of the rules with expensive lawyers, it should be to break them into smaller pieces so they actually have to compete with each…

Sarcasm is the problem? What an insane take. You'll need to explain that one for us lol.

Perhaps you meant "their (sarcastic) implication that the only solution is regulation is the problem"? I would agree. I just chose one thing to use in my sarcastic comment and believe there are multiple solutions – I'm glad it's sparked a sub thread.

Re: Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

#53

Post by BrenBarn »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #41
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #17

None of the comments seem to mention that companies get to just cheat you out of your money and get bailed out when caught by Trump: > That toxic cycle is now being sped up by a Trump administration that is defanging government watchdogs, consumer rights advocates say. > In late 2023, Toyota Motor Credit, the finance arm of the carmaker, was ordered to pay $60m after dealers sold thousands of customers unwanted insur…

This is actually making the case for why agencies like the CFPB are a bad way to go about this. If that was a class action lawsuit instead, the plaintiff's lawyers aren't going to drop the case just because there was a change of administrations.

It's more a case for why the US system of government is a failure.

Re: Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

#54

Post by pessimizer »

SoftTalker wrote: post #25
mirashii wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is most likely a simple mistake or process breakdown I think this needs justification. My status quo is to believe that most times I have a problem when dealing with these large corporations that they've made any process for getting support or remediating what _should_ be a simple process breakdown is a labyrinth of steps to make it as difficult as possible to reach any sort of remedy to discourage you from ev…

Have you ever worked for a large corporation? Have you seen how bureaucratic everything is? It's the nature of the beast. It's not calculated, and not personal. It's a process scaled to deal with thousands or millions of people. That's why when I have a problem with my internet service, I never call, or use the website, or use the app. I go to the Xfinity retail store and talk to someone. I almost always leave satisf…

> It's the nature of the beast. It's not calculated, and not personal.

These are simply weird declarations that you're making, and 20 years ago the world was not like this.

> It's a process scaled to deal with thousands or millions of people.

You're saying this as if there weren't thousands or millions of people 20 years ago.

> I go to the Xfinity retail store and talk to someone. I almost always leave satisfied.

I've never seen an Xfinity retail store in my life. I guess we have to wait until they close them all for you to stop patronizing people. Everybody here understands how businesses work, and we also understand why they cut services and quality. People are not confused or ignorant, they're angry that they don't have functioning governments, so these companies don't have to compete anymore.

Re: Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

#55

Post by expectsomuch »

All of the notes regarding the degraded quality and customer support / experience for products and services is true. But the additional factor is that so many of us are pushed to the brink now, in terms of affordability and costs of goods and services. If you're making good money and you order a sub-par product, it's definitely a frustration, but it's not the end of the world. But now, for so many, there is less margin for that kind of error.

That scammy product, pushed to us by an algorithm we can't control or escape, sold with lies and guarantees that will never be enforced, with deceptive ads generated by AI that becomes increasingly undistinguishable from the real thing, and flooded with positive reviews generated by bots, is money that won't go to essential things like food, rent, and transport, let alone healthcare, all of which is also increasingly unaffordable. The rage is understandable.

Re: Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

#56

Post by sbfriends »

m1llie_ wrote: post #40

I feel a very similar sentiment in Australia. Everything is poorly made and full of anti-features. It breaks prematurely, and software updates make it worse by disabling features, adding things I don't want, or holding functionality I already paid for to ransom as a subscription. Warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Every warranty claim I've made in the past 5 years (a fair few) has been a Kafka-esqu…

Australia's consumer guarantees cannot be replaced or excluded by warranties and offer huge protections for consumers who know how to exercise their rights. Companies try to apply friction to the process and I suspect that frustrates a lot of people to the point of giving up.

Re: Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

#57

Post by pessimizer »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #50
SoftTalker wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever worked for a large corporation? Have you seen how bureaucratic everything is? It's the nature of the beast. It's not calculated, and not personal. It's a process scaled to deal with thousands or millions of people. That's why when I have a problem with my internet service, I never call, or use the website, or use the app. I go to the Xfinity retail store and talk to someone. I almost always leave satisf…

> Have you ever worked for a large corporation? Have you seen how bureaucratic everything is? It's the nature of the beast. It's not calculated, and not personal Yes I have, yes I have, yes it is, it absolutely is calculated, but you're right it's not personal. It's "just good business" But it absolutely is calculated. I've been in those rooms when those calculations were made. I've resigned in disgust when my pleas…

> But it absolutely is calculated. I've been in those rooms when those calculations were made.

It's insane. I've watched so many people ridicule basic descriptions of utterly mundane predatory business strategies as "conspiracy theories" who I know for a fact have sat in meetings planning (or being told to implement) them.

I think that middle class professionals are so deeply in denial that they don't believe that they themselves exist. The avoidance of the moral consequences of their own work blinds them to anything that reminds them of what they do.

Re: Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

#58

Post by leonidasrup »

vatsachak wrote: post #29

The Amazon app is unusable. I don't know what they are doing to it but today it wouldn't let me add more than 4 items. Also the design choices suck; I have always accidentally ordered to the wrong address because Amazon uses a "default address". A good rule of design; assume that the user doesn't think about things that they don't explicitly select. They also just advertise cheap crap and the app is so maximalist it…

You can not get an competitor, because US goverment is not enforcing the antitrust law.

In an market economy the market can make efficient decisions about investment, production, and the distribution of goods and services to consumers, guided by price signals created through the forces of supply and demand. But the market can not prevent companies from forming an oligopoly or a single company winning the competition race and becoming an monopoly, only the goverment can.

"In 1999 a coalition of 19 states and the federal Justice Department sued Microsoft. A highly publicized trial found that Microsoft had strong-armed many companies in an attempt to prevent competition from the Netscape browser. In 2000, the trial court ordered Microsoft split in two to punish it, and prevent it from future misbehavior; however the Court of Appeals reversed the decision and removed the judge from the case for improperly discussing the case with the media while it was still pending. With the case in front of a new judge, Microsoft and the government settled, with the government dropping the case in return for Microsoft agreeing to cease many of the practices the government challenged."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_antit...

Re: Why are US consumers so angry? It's not just high prices

#60

Post by femto »

sbfriends wrote: post #56
m1llie_ wrote: post #40

I feel a very similar sentiment in Australia. Everything is poorly made and full of anti-features. It breaks prematurely, and software updates make it worse by disabling features, adding things I don't want, or holding functionality I already paid for to ransom as a subscription. Warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Every warranty claim I've made in the past 5 years (a fair few) has been a Kafka-esqu…

Australia's consumer guarantees cannot be replaced or excluded by warranties and offer huge protections for consumers who know how to exercise their rights. Companies try to apply friction to the process and I suspect that frustrates a lot of people to the point of giving up.

I'd encourage Australians not to muck around in this regard. Fair Trading gives explicit instructions:

1) Contact the organisation

2) Suggest a resolution

3) give them a reasonable time to respond (ie. not forever)

4) Be polite

5) Lodge a complaint with Fair Trading

The more people that do this, the less sellers will try to do people over.

https://www.nsw.gov.au/legal-and-justice/consumer-rights-and...

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