Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid • Hacker News Board

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#11

Post by dataflow » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 4:57 AM UTC

hankbond wrote: post #7

I feel like I have not really heard a compelling reason why student debt should not be dischargeable thru bankruptcy like (afaik) all other forms of debt. I am curious what the ramifications would be if higher education institutions had to (in some form) co-sign the debt being issued. I do get that not all education should be purely for economic reasons, but as an autodidact I feel that "learning for the sake of lear…

> I feel like I have not really heard a compelling reason why student debt should not be dischargeable thru bankruptcy like (afaik) all other forms of debt.

According to Reddit [1] it was to discourage students from immediately declaring bankruptcy upon graduation.

I don't see why they couldn't have put a time limit on it though, if that was the reason. Say you can't declare bankruptcy for 7 years after you leave school.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/StudentLoans/comments/ufejjg/why_ca...

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#12

Post by delichon » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 4:58 AM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #8

Hopefully this will revamp the educational system in such a way that the pejoratively named "trade schools" can confer bachelor's degrees on their graduates as well. I don't really see why some no name university can confer a bachelor's in some bullshit field, but the respectable local trade school cannot confer a bachelor's in plumbing. They honestly have more of a right to do so.

A baccalaureate is an academic degree, which is not what trade employers are looking for. They want certifications and licenses.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#13

Post by galkk » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:02 AM UTC

This is great. Those bullshit degrees are example of externalising costs and capturing profits.

Although, unfortunately, I suspect that this will be gamed by things like “this is super unique diploma” and there are no pros on market yet. Rotate that every 5 years and voila. I’m sure that every smart people are already thinking about schemes much more elaborate

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#14

Post by dataflow » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:04 AM UTC

> If a program cannot show that it leaves its graduates financially better off than if they had never enrolled, it should not be underwritten by federal taxpayers

Wouldn't this punish a huge number of students who struggle academically, by comparing them against better-achievers who simply skipped school?

The two populations being compared are entirely different for a lot of schools. Just because the average student skipping college does better than the average student attending a particular college, that doesn't mean the average one that attended college would've done as well as the average one that skipped.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#15

Post by nibbleyou » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:07 AM UTC

dataflow wrote: post #11

hankbond wrote: post #7

I feel like I have not really heard a compelling reason why student debt should not be dischargeable thru bankruptcy like (afaik) all other forms of debt. I am curious what the ramifications would be if higher education institutions had to (in some form) co-sign the debt being issued. I do get that not all education should be purely for economic reasons, but as an autodidact I feel that "learning for the sake of lear…

> I feel like I have not really heard a compelling reason why student debt should not be dischargeable thru bankruptcy like (afaik) all other forms of debt. According to Reddit [1] it was to discourage students from immediately declaring bankruptcy upon graduation. I don't see why they couldn't have put a time limit on it though, if that was the reason. Say you can't declare bankruptcy for 7 years after you leave sch…

I feel the interests would rise to accommodate for all the bankruptcies that inevitably happen exactly 7 years after

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#16

Post by bluefirebrand » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:07 AM UTC

delichon wrote: post #12

quadrifoliate wrote: post #8

Hopefully this will revamp the educational system in such a way that the pejoratively named "trade schools" can confer bachelor's degrees on their graduates as well. I don't really see why some no name university can confer a bachelor's in some bullshit field, but the respectable local trade school cannot confer a bachelor's in plumbing. They honestly have more of a right to do so.

A baccalaureate is an academic degree, which is not what trade employers are looking for. They want certifications and licenses.

They usually need their employees to have certifications and licenses, by law.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#17

Post by tbrownaw » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:08 AM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #8

Hopefully this will revamp the educational system in such a way that the pejoratively named "trade schools" can confer bachelor's degrees on their graduates as well. I don't really see why some no name university can confer a bachelor's in some bullshit field, but the respectable local trade school cannot confer a bachelor's in plumbing. They honestly have more of a right to do so.

> pejoratively named "trade schools"

That's an accurate name, and only seems pejorative if you see learning a trade as lesser than studying academics.

> name university can confer a bachelor's in some bullshit field, but the respectable local trade school cannot confer a bachelor's in plumbing

This misunderstands what the different kinds of credentials are.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#18

Post by user3939382 » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:11 AM UTC

Clock hour schools have been held to this standard forever. It’s called gainful employment. It was always bullshit that credit hour schools didn’t have this standard, as if it was 1930 and colleges were here to help us think thoughts rather than as part of the jobs pipeline.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#19

Post by tbrownaw » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:12 AM UTC

nibbleyou wrote: post #15

dataflow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like I have not really heard a compelling reason why student debt should not be dischargeable thru bankruptcy like (afaik) all other forms of debt. According to Reddit [1] it was to discourage students from immediately declaring bankruptcy upon graduation. I don't see why they couldn't have put a time limit on it though, if that was the reason. Say you can't declare bankruptcy for 7 years after you leave sch…

I feel the interests would rise to accommodate for all the bankruptcies that inevitably happen exactly 7 years after

I would think that in this case, credit would mostly go to people expected to not have negative net worth after that 7 year limit.

Re: Under federal rule, colleges must leave grads better off or lose financial aid

#20

Post by jjav » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:14 AM UTC

nibbleyou wrote: post #15

dataflow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like I have not really heard a compelling reason why student debt should not be dischargeable thru bankruptcy like (afaik) all other forms of debt. According to Reddit [1] it was to discourage students from immediately declaring bankruptcy upon graduation. I don't see why they couldn't have put a time limit on it though, if that was the reason. Say you can't declare bankruptcy for 7 years after you leave sch…

I feel the interests would rise to accommodate for all the bankruptcies that inevitably happen exactly 7 years after

If bankrupcy is allowed some reasonable number of years later (not sure if that is 7 or 10, but some reasonable time) then if your education worked out and you're in a good career path and maybe close to buying a home, etc, declaring bankrupcy would probably hurt more than help.

OTOH if you're still poor after those years and don't care about consequences of bankrupcy then maybe that's fair enough to wipe out the debt since the education clearly didn't provide value.