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Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

blog.yaelwrites.com

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Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#91
post #88

This is insanely entitled. If you want someone with experience then pay them for it. Likewise if you don't want people to have some experience then don't pay them. How do people get jobs at jar opening factories by deferring jar opening to someone capable? These are your collages who have full time jobs, not monks at some monastery, go do that if that's what you want.

...Are you proposing that coworkers pay each other to have technical conversations?

Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#92

If you've already done some research then include that up front. I get asked a lot of questions by people who not only haven't asked an AI first they haven't even googled it. So if you've asked Claude and are not satisfied with the response then include that and say what your question is now in the light of that information.

This is exactly it. If you want someone to do some analysis for you, you're obliged to give them some context regarding what analysis you've already done.

Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond mirroring the engineering practices that you yourself want to see other people perform, have you found any techniques to get people to … in short, do their job again? Understand context, understand what they did, why they did it, what they’re doing, etc. The +/-2000 line MR was bad when humans wrote it. It’s way worse when the human didn’t even write or read it. And just vomiting automated CodeRabbit talking p…

For me the trick was just leaning all the way into it. I had a residual idea that if someone sends me a 2000 line PR, 10 page design, etc., that this represents some concrete investment of time and effort that deserves my careful consideration. And it just doesn't anymore. I have one project where there must be hundreds of pages of design proposals I have not read and will never read, because the author really likes…

That sounds like a fantastic way for a malicious actor or an unintentional prompt injection exploit to sneak into a codebase.

Perhaps you could explain how this is different from rubber stamping, if it’s just 30 seconds of reading.

Does the conversation you have reveal what they actually want?

And what about the 2000 line change? Does that get stamped after someone talks about the change but without deeply reading it?

Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the trick was just leaning all the way into it. I had a residual idea that if someone sends me a 2000 line PR, 10 page design, etc., that this represents some concrete investment of time and effort that deserves my careful consideration. And it just doesn't anymore. I have one project where there must be hundreds of pages of design proposals I have not read and will never read, because the author really likes…

That sounds like a fantastic way for a malicious actor or an unintentional prompt injection exploit to sneak into a codebase. Perhaps you could explain how this is different from rubber stamping, if it’s just 30 seconds of reading. Does the conversation you have reveal what they actually want? And what about the 2000 line change? Does that get stamped after someone talks about the change but without deeply reading it…

Typically what happens is that we have a good conversation, we make progress towards figuring out what they should want to do and how they should try to do it, and the 2000 line PR or 10 page doc gets abandoned. I do read things in detail when I expect I might one day be convinced to approve them, but that fraction has plummeted from 95% to like 20% since January.

Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#95
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes part of the education is teaching people how to ask better questions, and that they need to do their research before asking you

"How To Ask Questions The Smart Way" by Eric S. Raymond and Rick Moen is from before AI but still seems relevant. (HTTP) http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/smart-questions.html https://archive.ph/duRkf

Latest version: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#96

The subtitle is: > I already did. They repeat multiple times in the article that asking Claude was something they already did. So this isn’t an anti-LLM article. This seems to be a communication problem. The other party either doesn’t know that they’ve put a lot of effort into researching this already, or their trying to give a gentle let-down instead of saying they don’t have time for this. For the first case, the s…

Honestly, I think she feels that it’s a new way to say “GOFY.”

She’s a journalist, and, from what I can see, a pretty good one. Someone that is fairly used to being able to talk to very senior people.

I suspect most journalists get told to intercourse themselves, from time to time, but it seems “ask Claude” is a new way of saying it, and, whether it’s meant, or not, a subtle insult. The kind that people like her especially resent. The intimation that she didn’t do her homework. It puts her on her back foot, and I think it’s meant to.

Us nerds can relate. How often are we told that we didn’t do something basic, with the onus on us, to prove we did? For a newb, that’s understandable, but it’s a real slap, for experienced pros.

Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a fantastic way for a malicious actor or an unintentional prompt injection exploit to sneak into a codebase. Perhaps you could explain how this is different from rubber stamping, if it’s just 30 seconds of reading. Does the conversation you have reveal what they actually want? And what about the 2000 line change? Does that get stamped after someone talks about the change but without deeply reading it…

Typically what happens is that we have a good conversation, we make progress towards figuring out what they should want to do and how they should try to do it, and the 2000 line PR or 10 page doc gets abandoned. I do read things in detail when I expect I might one day be convinced to approve them, but that fraction has plummeted from 95% to like 20% since January.

Have you noticed an increase in their willingness to “do the right thing first time” during these last 6 months since your approval rate has dropped that much? (Even if the right thing is to have more conversations)?

Do you know if there’s a way to incentivize them to lean toward doing the right thing first? Are the company and stakeholder goals and objectives in line with them making progress toward higher quality engineering? That is, are these juniors protected from randoms asking them to circumvent good process, etc?

Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#98
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This drives me absolutely crazy. My colleagues send me huge PRs to review (say 2000+ lines). I don't just paste comments from the LLM, I ask the LLM to review it, but I also review it myself. I only include ideas from the LLM if I think a) the LLM has gotten the issue right and b) it's worth having the developer take the time to address the issue. I always write the comment myself so I can add relevant context and pu…

What's even worse is when you go though such PRs and your comments are handled in minutes, with replies explaining the change with perfect spelling and em dashes. At which point you ask yourself: "What am I doing here? His agent wrote the entire thing, and now I'm going through it and telling his agent what to fix. Why is he even needed?" Or even, even worse is when you get a PR from a co-worker, you spend a lot of t…

Why is he even needed?

that's the point where i would want to start firing people. not because i want to replace them with AI, but because if they use AI to answer without contributing their own thoughts they make themselves replaceable.

Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#99
post #21

The subtitle is: > I already did. They repeat multiple times in the article that asking Claude was something they already did. So this isn’t an anti-LLM article. This seems to be a communication problem. The other party either doesn’t know that they’ve put a lot of effort into researching this already, or their trying to give a gentle let-down instead of saying they don’t have time for this. For the first case, the s…

When I post a technical question in Forums, I usually add something like "Tried Copilot, got useless answer ...". The trouble with asking an LLM is that there are a huge number of people (this predates LLMs) who post answers on forums along the lines of "turn it off and turn it on again" LLMs pick that up as the consensus solution.

[flagged]

Re: Stop Telling Me to Ask an LLM

#100
post #34

I completely agree. Replying with "ask Claude" feels to me like admitting you've lost control over the subject matter and don't know anything about it or at least don't trust your judgement anymore. It feels like saying you're replaceable by AI. It makes sense to hate and despise that answer. And yet, I'm not 100% sure I've never used it myself. I will have to watch out for that.

You're projecting several layers of bias onto this scenario. The more busy you are, the more valuable your time... the more expensive context switching is. When you are known as the person with the answers, your day is at least partially structured around getting people to leave you tf alone so that you can actually concentrate on getting your own work done. There's a really toxic expectation that people who are seni…

if this is the experience in a team, then the team already has a problem. i expect these things to be made clear up front.

when someone joins a team they should be assigned a mentor whom they can ask any question, no matter how dumb, and the mentor then guides the new team member in how to approach such a question, which at that point can include asking the LLM. it is the mentors responsibility to point out when it is ok to ask another senior developer. daily standups can also help with this sort of thing.

in a close knit team i would also expect that either everyone can ask anything from everyone else, and that everyone learns when it is ok to ask questions. the situation you describe should simply never arise. if it does, then something is going wrong

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