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How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

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Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#21

Post by Xorakios »

Simulacra wrote: post #14
djoldman wrote: post #4

> Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack... He explained to me that he never, under any circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn’t died as he’d hoped. The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even reported my unplugging of Jack to…

[flagged]

Like many older people I know, my notarized DNR, provided by and on file with my insurance company, local hospital, primary doctor, and medical power of attorney, includes standard language permitting organ harvesting.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#22

Post by clukic »

j-conn wrote: post #3
ggm wrote: post #2

> Many people think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are usually poor. I’ve had hundreds of people brought to me in the emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who’d had no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a ‘tension pneumothorax’), walked out of the hospital. This point has been made by many medically trained people over decades. It's a very energetic…

Totally misleading. Early CPR (+AED if available) absolutely saves lives. Article is from 2011 by a family med doctor. Overly aggressive resuscitation attempts are definitely a problem but context matters

100%. CPR initiated within 2 minutes of cardiac arrest increases survival rate by 81%. The fact that CPR is rarely initiated so quickly (and thus survival rates are extremely low), says nothing about the efficacy of CPR. In the best cases where CPR is initiated https://newsroom.heart.org/news/bystander-cpr-up-to-10-minut...

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#23

Post by [deleted] »

Simulacra wrote: post #14
djoldman wrote: post #4

> Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack... He explained to me that he never, under any circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn’t died as he’d hoped. The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even reported my unplugging of Jack to…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#24

Post by dj_gitmo »

ourmandave wrote: post #16
djoldman wrote: post #4

> Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack... He explained to me that he never, under any circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn’t died as he’d hoped. The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even reported my unplugging of Jack to…

This reminds me of an interview with neurosurgeon and author Henry Marsh who had prostate cancer. He described how he's arranged to end his own life should he get alzheimer's or dementia as he didn't want to waste away. But he explained that he has access to knowledge and things ordinary people don't.

I looked into this recently and it seems like it is basically impossible to pre-arrange assisted suicide for alzheimer's or dementia. Even in countries which allow death with dignity. I find it very strange because it’s so common and I’m sure many people would prefer DWD in those circumstances.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#25

Post by ____tom____ »

On the spectrum or go gentle vs fight, I'd have to say, now is the time is history where "fight" makes the most sense.

This is not abstract for me. I have not one, but two forms of cancer.

Both were considered incurable when I was diagnosed.

Both have treatments now that, IN SOME PEOPLE, lead to remission.

I still don't know which group I am, but I'd be dead from either one by now, if I hadn't elected to treat.

New treatments, for SOME cancers are literally coming out monthly.

So the fact that you can't be cured today, does mean there won't be a better treatment by next year, if you can hang on.

I should find out soon on my more aggressive one. Either way, I plan on continuing to try.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#26

Post by lsaferite »

classichasclass wrote: post #10
j-conn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally misleading. Early CPR (+AED if available) absolutely saves lives. Article is from 2011 by a family med doctor. Overly aggressive resuscitation attempts are definitely a problem but context matters

"Early" is load-bearing. Even brief delays, just mere minutes, significantly decrease survival or positive outcomes. https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCOUTCOMES.123.010... It's important to get people to realize the benefits of early CPR and more people should be trained on how to do it, or else it won't be prompt and the outcomes will be worse. That's what the Red Cross and AHA promulgate to the public, in…

I've never heard the term "load-bearing" used outside of the civil engineering world until the more recent versions of Claude suddenly decided everything was "load-bearing".

Did you internalize Claude terminology, use Claude to write/translate your post, or lead Claude into temptation by being the OG?

Asking out of genuine curiosity and not at all trying to throw shade.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#27

Post by Loughla »

delichon wrote: post #11
djoldman wrote: post #4

> Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack... He explained to me that he never, under any circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn’t died as he’d hoped. The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even reported my unplugging of Jack to…

There is a huge unspoken blind spot for a terminal hospice patient. The medicine cabinet just opens up. My dad asked the doctor exactly how much of what he shouldn't take if he didn't want a quick easy death, and the doctor just told him. He didn't end up using it but it was a comfort to him.

The amount of morphine available to the patients on hospice that I have known has made it very clear what the actual intent of those scripts is.

Granted, my sample size of 6 isn't great, and 3 were in terrible pain so it made sense for them, but they had ALL the opiates. . . One had liquid injectable morphine in case he couldn't swallow. He had no issues with swallowing and wasn't in pain.

I wanted to ask the doctor if the intent was to allow a calm end, but chickened out.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#28

Post by denkmoon »

Simulacra wrote: post #14
djoldman wrote: post #4

> Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack... He explained to me that he never, under any circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn’t died as he’d hoped. The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even reported my unplugging of Jack to…

[flagged]

These ideas seem to be at odds with one another. I'm reasonably sure you can't harvest organs from a resuscitated person in a vegetative state, coma, severely brain damaged, whatever.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#29

Post by classichasclass »

lsaferite wrote: post #26
classichasclass wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Early" is load-bearing. Even brief delays, just mere minutes, significantly decrease survival or positive outcomes. https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCOUTCOMES.123.010... It's important to get people to realize the benefits of early CPR and more people should be trained on how to do it, or else it won't be prompt and the outcomes will be worse. That's what the Red Cross and AHA promulgate to the public, in…

I've never heard the term "load-bearing" used outside of the civil engineering world until the more recent versions of Claude suddenly decided everything was "load-bearing". Did you internalize Claude terminology, use Claude to write/translate your post, or lead Claude into temptation by being the OG? Asking out of genuine curiosity and not at all trying to throw shade.

No. I do use the term.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#30

Post by j-conn »

oh_my_goodness wrote: post #17
j-conn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally misleading. Early CPR (+AED if available) absolutely saves lives. Article is from 2011 by a family med doctor. Overly aggressive resuscitation attempts are definitely a problem but context matters

How has CPR (or CPR data) changed since 2011? What type of medicine do you practice?

My only point was that this article shouldn’t be considered authoritative, wanted to put it in perspective for someone surfing hn and just reading the comments

The person closest to me was saved by CPR after cardiac arrest (and cooling at the hospital), with no neurological deficits

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