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New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

theguardian.com

331–340 of 363 posts

Re: New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

#331
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why: because the federal level is not doing it how: by declaring it a law in that area

And yet an executive action is not a law. It's a dictate. Course, one should never underestimate the value of a benevolent dictator...

okay, I apologize for using the word law. However, that doesn't mean they cannot ban it by executive action.

Re: New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

#332
post #44

The irony with all this, is if a company makes it difficult to cancel their subscription, it's probably not a good product. Antidotically, I've found that making it easy for users to not only cancel, but refund, has given me eye opening things to fix in some products that made it so less people cancelled or refunded. So I try to always err on best user experience.

I doubt so, I think a large amount of serious companies do it as well because it's a very simple way to earn much more money (and strangely improve the service), many businesses (even "good") often rely solely on this, Gym businesses is the typical example of this and many gyms will just not be able to make money at all if people actually used their membership correctly, literally space-wise, it can't fit, many businesses are entirely based on "failure", however, we can acknowledge that some Gyms are exceptional in quality, but will still bank on the fact that the user will just stop going, ideally as soon as possible.

I'm not saying it's right, but the reality is that probably half the gyms would close immediately if this is enforced.

Re: New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

#333
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in high school my German teacher taught us to tip by default by rounding up and paying with exact change. Is that still a thing when everyone is paying with card?

I'm German and in the rare instance I eat out in an actual restaurant, I still do that "rounding up" if I've been happy with the service. Cash or card is not really an important factor for that scenario. Let's say the bill says someting between 67€ - 72€, I would round that up to 80€. Or sometimes (not every time though) when I'm getting a Döner kebab and it's ~7.50€ I'll round that up to the next full €.

The secret for Döner is to tell the Dönermann beforehand that you'll tip, then it usually results in a bunch of extra meat!

Re: New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

#334
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurant owners interviewed in the media here in SF are directly quoted saying they can’t do that because “customers would notice”, or think “oh that’s expensive, I can’t eat out twice a week”. These are arguments for including the fees that make the customer __still pay the same higher price__, implying that the whole point is that they won’t notice. And reporters don’t seem to even register the absurdity of those…

It’s the same thing with any “menu” vs actual price. Airline baggage fees are probably the prototypical case for this. Airlines that did not display the lowest price during flight searches got outcompeted by those that did. This led the entire industry to change since it took an entire decade long marketing campaign centered around it (Southwest) to try to stay even. Consumers make irrational choices all the time, an…

I think it’s a little different.

The restaurant fee isn’t a fee for something “extra”, it’s just a blanket extra charge on everything.

It’d be like the airline sold you a ticket for $500, but as you step off the plane at the destination they say “actually it was $550”, because it said so in the fine print.

Re: New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

#335
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part of restaurant fees are the people (both owners and somehow the patrons) that will justify the existence of the fee as if it's too difficult to just print the final price in the menu. I live in a touristy part of the world and effectively all restaurants above baseline level will have a "+7% service +11% tax" line. To me this is clearly deceptive practice.

What happens if a tourist refuses to pay the fee? Or asks for resolution by a neutral third party like law enforcement? Seems like a kind of practice that could quickly become impractical if people simply DDOS it by disputing it.

It's printed on the menu so it's effectively legal, just dishonest.

> What happens if a tourist refuses to pay the fee?

Just about what would happen if you refuse to pay the bill, most likely you'll end up being shared on some Facebook group or worse.

Re: New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

#336
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if people simply DDOS DDOS attacks are only "simple" when you can easily coordinate all of the distributed peers. In this case one or two people doing it might be a small annoyance but they're going to have a hard time convincing all the other tourists to turn their trip into a political direct action.

This is an odd response. I've been to countries that have special tourist police trained in english who frequent tourist locations to prevent this kind of behaviour. I've never experienced it personally but I've heard stories from other travellers who said that they actually went and got a cop to mediate a despite like this and the cop reamed the merchant out and made him apologize in front of other customers and han…

I'm afraid that police wouldn't do a thing if a practice is widespread and accepted by most. Legally speaking it's not a scam because it's not a hidden charge.

The 3% credit card charge on the other hand... but I'd rather pay cash than confront the poor cashier.

I will just respond with a 1-star review.

Re: New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

#337
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if people simply DDOS DDOS attacks are only "simple" when you can easily coordinate all of the distributed peers. In this case one or two people doing it might be a small annoyance but they're going to have a hard time convincing all the other tourists to turn their trip into a political direct action.

This is an odd response. I've been to countries that have special tourist police trained in english who frequent tourist locations to prevent this kind of behaviour. I've never experienced it personally but I've heard stories from other travellers who said that they actually went and got a cop to mediate a despite like this and the cop reamed the merchant out and made him apologize in front of other customers and han…

The police are paid and trained to organise against crime. That's quite different than disconnected tourists beginning to organise, which was the idea I responded to.

Re: New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should car insurance be included in the price of a car? You have the freedom to purchase insurance from whoever.

That’s a legal requirement though. If I rent a car and the rental company requires me to also insure it or they won’t give me the keys, surely that should be included, even if the insurance money isn’t going to the rental company.

If you are leasing a car they would certainly also require you to obtain insurance as part of your lease agreement. Same deal with an apartment.

Re: New York City to ban deceptive subscription practices

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a legal requirement though. If I rent a car and the rental company requires me to also insure it or they won’t give me the keys, surely that should be included, even if the insurance money isn’t going to the rental company.

If you are leasing a car they would certainly also require you to obtain insurance as part of your lease agreement. Same deal with an apartment.

Why would they? Would they not just sue you for the damages if you break the car? Why would they care? I never leased a car but I thought they checked that you have enough money for the lease to prevent people from defaulting.

But even if it is true, I think the price of the insurance (or at least some reference value for comparison, assuming there are multiple competing offers) should be included in the sticker price.

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