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Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

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Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#121

Post by acabal »

I'm pretty surprised that Shuttleworth didn't see this kind of reaction coming, considering his long-time involvement in free software. Or maybe he did see it coming, and just doesn't care?

In either case, you're in a bad position when you're distributing a Linux distro that RMS starts to call out. Shuttleworth would do well to observe what happened to GNOME: they ignored their core user base, and they've been in such hot water for it that now they're backpedaling (GNOME Legacy). If Linux can't even please its core user base--aka the evangelists--it doesn't stand a chance in the wild.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#122

Post by stinos »

>> when he searched for a string in the files of his Windows system, it sent a packet to some server

anyone has a source for this? Was this built into windows? (It's not in mine, or it's not active)

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#123

Post by acabal »

Shamanmuni wrote: post #115
belorn wrote: post #59

A lot of people are pointing out that if you do not like something, don't use it. It's simple enough, and have a "sounds right" tone to it. As an implied statement with this, anyone complaining should just shut up then. This is a rather crazy line of thought once one actually starts to think about it. If I see a poisonous (say rotten) food being sold, I find it almost my duty to inform people. Somehow it's now being…

Personally, while I generally agree with rms, in this particular situation I think he went overboard. Not in expressing his opinion, but in the way he did it. I say this as a free software advocate; this situation arises from a sad reality, and one that rms doesn't even address: it's really hard to make money from free software. I don't think Mark Shuttleworth was enthusiastic about sending users' information, the de…

I think RMS's stance is by definition always the extreme. He sees these things in black and white, so there's no degrees of compromise. If software phones home with private information without the users explicit consent, it's against his principles, period. And I think that's an excellent position to have, which is not to say you're not right either--making money is an important and difficult aspect of FOSS. But the day that RMS starts compromising will be a sad day.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#124

Post by drcube »

yungchin wrote: post #100
btilly wrote: post #84

Canonical is not the first to do this. And nobody minded. In Chrome, every time you start to type a URL, it tries to autocomplete. One source of autocompletions is that it contacts Google, which sends back suggestions. Therefore by default Google knows every search you do in Chrome, even if you didn't want to go to Google. (They turn this off for incognito mode.) I don't know how long this has been the case for Chrom…

Yes, but it's somewhat less of a privacy violation, because you usually expect to send out the URL you type over the internet. That's different from trying a local search on your machine and finding it ended up on the internet.

No, you only expect it to send the URL when you hit "enter". For instant results, however, it must send each character typed to Google. Also, when I type a non-google URL into my address bar, I don't expect Google to be notified. As it is, they can track all your internet travels from Chrome, and I don't like it. Hence why I use Firefox and Duck Duck Go.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#125

Post by [deleted] »

takluyver wrote: post #69
curiousdannii wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon postage is prohibitively expensive for those outside the US (except perhaps for those who live in another country where Amazon is based?) The only time I'd ever use Amazon is if I'm after an old rare book which is out of print and Amazon is the only place I can find a second hand copy. And in those times I'd actually be deliberately searching for it, checking many sites in my browser, not casually using Unity!

According to Wikipedia, Amazon has national sites covering North America, most of Europe, Brazil, Japan & China. That's a pretty substantial slice of the world's population.

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#126

Post by vog »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #79
belorn wrote: post #59

A lot of people are pointing out that if you do not like something, don't use it. It's simple enough, and have a "sounds right" tone to it. As an implied statement with this, anyone complaining should just shut up then. This is a rather crazy line of thought once one actually starts to think about it. If I see a poisonous (say rotten) food being sold, I find it almost my duty to inform people. Somehow it's now being…

This is a great example of how nothing is free. Linux isn't free, not only does it cost time, it costs privacy. I do enjoy playing with it, so the first cost is meaningless to me, but the second absolutely is not. Frankly, Ubuntu is mismanaged. From the absurd new UI to a built-in privacy trojan? I'd rather just pay for an OS that doesn't hate me or use a different distro. Not sure what the allure of Ubuntu is at thi…

>Linux isn't free, [...], it costs privacy.

I hate this rhetorical trick. The article says "Ubuntu" and you generalize to all Linux distributions.

What's the point of that mud-slinging against all Linuxes, including projects like Debian whose maintainers work at great expense to ensure user's freedoms are protected? (e.g. by having an extra team "Debian-legal" that studies all licenses and ensures there remains a clear cut between free and proprietary software)

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#127

Post by [deleted] »

takluyver wrote: post #69
curiousdannii wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon postage is prohibitively expensive for those outside the US (except perhaps for those who live in another country where Amazon is based?) The only time I'd ever use Amazon is if I'm after an old rare book which is out of print and Amazon is the only place I can find a second hand copy. And in those times I'd actually be deliberately searching for it, checking many sites in my browser, not casually using Unity!

According to Wikipedia, Amazon has national sites covering North America, most of Europe, Brazil, Japan & China. That's a pretty substantial slice of the world's population.

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#128

Post by zurn »

takluyver wrote: post #69
curiousdannii wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon postage is prohibitively expensive for those outside the US (except perhaps for those who live in another country where Amazon is based?) The only time I'd ever use Amazon is if I'm after an old rare book which is out of print and Amazon is the only place I can find a second hand copy. And in those times I'd actually be deliberately searching for it, checking many sites in my browser, not casually using Unity!

According to Wikipedia, Amazon has national sites covering North America, most of Europe, Brazil, Japan & China. That's a pretty substantial slice of the world's population.

Only a handful of European countries: Germany, UK, France, Italy I think. That's 15.2% of Europe by area.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#129

Post by dradtke »

Surio wrote: post #102
harel wrote: post #66

You can always turn it off. You can always use Gnome Shell over Unity (should anyway as its nicer). You can always buy another operating system. You know, vote with your wallet. Ah, wait... There has to be a price for free. In RMS world everybody is a hacker, everything is free (as in love) and open and nobody needs to eat, kids grow up not costing a penny. But in my world, I understand that sometimes I'm getting som…

>>> I'm getting something for free that is actually superior to the paid stuff, and sometimes those giving it to me need to feed a kid or two, or buy their Mrs that new outfit on the high street. Classy. You get my vote for that and subsequently pointing out that "They don't even force me to do it because I can turn it off" . This. I also liked the way you ended it. We definitely need RMS, but he definitely needs to…

But why not present it as an option to the user on first launch, or first search? Considering how relatively few people actually want shopping suggestions on their desktop, I expect the majority of users who don't turn it off to be people who simply can't be bothered to find the setting and change it. Exploiting user apathy is not my idea of software that respects its users, which is what the FSF is all about.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#130

Post by dagw »

antidoh wrote: post #110
willvarfar wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend Xubuntu. And if they run Windows, install it as WUBI.

I mean something not derived from Ubuntu. Yes, Xubuntu (which I currently run underneath XMonad) does not (yet) have this and future related features, and that's good. But by using an Ubuntu derived distro, you lend credibility to Ubuntu and Canonical. I would prefer to recommend something higher up the derivation line between Debian and Ubuntu.

Linux Mint as a Debian based version of their distro, which comes with all the desktop polish of Mint, but in their own words: "it's not as stable. Things are likely to break more often but fixes can also come quicker. For this reason, LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT"

Personally I'd take a look at OpenSuSE. It was a pretty good as a Just Works desktop last I looked, but that was a few years ago.

Another option is actually PC-BSD. I've never quite gotten along with it, but that is mainly because I want to do all kinds of hacky strangeness, but for a newbie desktop it's solid with great documentation and easy to install software.

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