Live data from Hacker News

A love letter to flashcards

lesleylai.info

101–110 of 124 posts

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#101

Two really good modern books on how we actual learn are. 1. The ABCs of How We Learn by Daniel L. Schwartz 2. How Learning Happens 2nd by Paul A. Kirschner & Carl Hendrick I can really recommend them. Now back to flashcards and active recall. They are the secret sauce. People in the thread are saying that understanding is important, while I agree you should understand things its not THAT important. Important is that…

I agree, having learned something with flashcards is like you have a repertoire to choose from. Instead of having to sort everything A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, C3 you get to sort A, B, C. It has built in chunking. And what I noticed is that with memorizing comes understanding. Your flashcard says A on the front and A1, A2, A3 on the back. After reading it a few times you will understand what A means. But it will also help you put together the overall topic of A, B, C. It is wonderful compression.

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#102
post #7

Flashcards are brilliant. Anki is finally usable after they ditched the hot garbage algorithm they were using. Previously I've used the Leitner method and I stil think that's the best one for me.

Which algorithm is the hot garbage one to you? SuperMemo 2?

Yes

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#103

I once took a psychology course with my girlfriend at the time. She and her pals would be up all night studying with flashcards. I'd just walk into class, learn about it, never study, and get A's on the tests. When they asked me how I was doing it I explained that I'm there to learn understand the topic and I don't give a damn about the test. So I just let my curiosity lead the way, it causes me to ask questions in a…

I don’t know…I think even if someone was really interested in something like organic chemistry or biochem, unless they had a very very abnormal memory they’d get wrecked on an exam without studying. I used SRS when studying for OChem and got the highest grade across all sections my prof was teaching.

[deleted]

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#104
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really curious exactly how you learn things like chess with flash cards. French makes sense as I would guess you just have a word or phrase in both languages. What do you do for topics like chess?

Sure, I can explain - it's a little complicated, but I maintain a small-ish catalogue of ~1000 positions for the following topics: - Checkmates-in-one - Checkmates-in-two - Defensive technique (avoid checkmate/material loss) - Winning material - Endgame patterns - etc (~5 more) ... That I got by scraping the Lichess database, favoring common patterns that appear within +- 600 of my current Elo. From there, I have Cla…

This sounds really helpful. Would it be possible for you to share a few pngs to illustrate how you did this? I'm very curious how you managed depth in openings on this.

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#105
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you can just…create Anki cards with sentences, right? Anki doesn’t force you to make cards with vocab words in isolation.

It doesn't but it also will not create a different sentence to you to practice a word. I tried this (use sentences instead of words), it sucks: you spend more time per card, but you learn less efficient, as you learn not just a word but all the hints coming from the same sentence. I wrote my own program 2 years ago, that generates new sentence on each review using AI (at that time I used Anki as scheduler). That was…

Personally, I feel this isn't really an issue, as someone who has learnt multiple languages to proficiency (some with anki involved, some without). I mean I'm at a level where I speak mostly fine, read historical literature, novels, academic/political works, and engage with significantly divergent dialects without any trouble (I'm interested in such things, so.)

You find a word you don't know, you add a sentence. Find a different use in the wild or in the dictionary, add a sentence. Want to harvest many examples at once? If your dictionary lacks example sentences, you should really find a better one (of course, dictionaries with historically oriented/early-attestation examples are not neceessarily bad - many of the best dictionaries are such - but they're not great for mining examples of usage). (Granted, some languages simply don't have dictionaries that meet this criteria, in that case you must work with what you have.) Corpora of speech or literature can also be used if they exist. Most of this process can be automated to 1-2 keypresses.

Yes you get hints from the sentences, but you do too when reading/listening. Seeing a single word in the wild is also likely to lead to some free association shenanigans - ask any native speaker of whatever to define a polysemous word. Multiple sentences can just be added for one word, as needed, though the 'bulk' of sentences for 'review' is going to come from exposure in the wild.

In my own experience, word cards are less efficient because they accrue many more reviews - even for languages closely related to my L1 - having higher average difficulty and a higher fail rate. I would hazard a guess that I could review ~20 sentnece cards across my lifespan in the time it takes to learn ~1 non-trivial vocabulary card (ie. not words with zero polysemy, technical terms, things that don't occur in idiosyncratic phrasal constructions with specific converbs/clitics/prepositions/case usage abnormalities or syntactic abnormalities). And you get reinforcement of ~15 other words for free (depending on how long the average sentence is in your TL). I never worry if I end up adding a couple of sentences 'for' a single word.

It's basically targeted re-reading/listening, those being things that one does anyway and which accounts for the bulk of learning vocabulary.

AI is a non-starter for me (personally) in this for two regards: 1) they're awful at most of the languages I've studied at a trivial level. 2) those that they're 'good at' (in terms of grammaticality) they're often just horrible stylistically. I would like to be able to speak/write in a way that is pleasing in nuance/idiom, not just comprehensible.

But if these don't really apply to you or don't match your experience with your TL (they're better with some languages than others), more power to you!

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#106
post #95
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I should have qualified my statement: Anki is inefficient compared to better methods, but more efficient than haphazardly trying to memorize things. Yes, it's better than nothing, but there are better SRS implementations, including most readers. I saw a lot of this from personal experience. I had to learn not only Latin and Greek, but also French and German just for my doctorate, and I learned Russian, Thai, an…

I guess my (badly conveyed) point was that Anki is already so efficient for me that I don't feel the need anything more. Well, not for vocabulary, anyway. There is more to learning a language than vocabulary. :)

Hey, fair enough. To each their own. If Anki is fine for you, great! Do what works.

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#107
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't but it also will not create a different sentence to you to practice a word. I tried this (use sentences instead of words), it sucks: you spend more time per card, but you learn less efficient, as you learn not just a word but all the hints coming from the same sentence. I wrote my own program 2 years ago, that generates new sentence on each review using AI (at that time I used Anki as scheduler). That was…

> It doesn't but it also will not create a different sentence to you to practice a word. Anki doesn't create either words or sentences. Drilling words doesn't work. You've drilled words and found it doesn't work. Try using clozes. It is not "less efficient" than drilling words, because drilling words does not work. No word in French means anything in English. The meanings of words are just surveys of the contexts in…

[deleted]

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#108

For language learning, I wish there was an audio-first flashcard app that changes up the example sentences every time. Right now, I'm using Anki to learn Japanese vocabulary from N5 to N3[1]. I know the words and the example sentences well enough to read N3-level text, provided I know the grammar. But when it comes to listening, I struggle to understand even N4-level spoken Japanese. Anki just doesn't offer enough va…

Have you looked at jpdb.io ? Iirc it has randomized example sentences

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#109
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memorizing becomes easier after understanding. My guess is understanding things, not just what they mean, but how they work, or interact with other concepts, speeds up repetition quicker because that is what's firing when renewing it.

I think that's a good observation (your mileage may vary), but the time that flashcards are the must needful is when your first learning. Yet my first Chemistry university professors pointed out that, although most people imagined it was easiest to get started in a new field and harder to learn when you made it to me advanced classes, in fact, it's hardest to get started when the concepts are new and foreign and easi…

You have a good point, the flashcard contents can make a big difference too.

Whether they're just for learning first principles first, and then a different set that are higher order connections between them.

Re: A love letter to flashcards

#110
My problem with Anki/flashcards is that I hate doing it so much that their effectiveness is moot.

If they help me learn at 100% speed and some other more enjoyable method helps me learn at 25% speed, I’ll pick the latter every time.

Thankfully, I didn’t become a doctor or lawyer, I would have been screwed.

Post reply on HN