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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#711

Post by sumedh »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #318
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

It seems to be a common trait of the AI people to just brazenly violate the law. It’s like a requirement for working at openAI is to think rules don’t apply to you because you’re so smart.

> It seems to be a common trait of the AI people to just brazenly violate the law.

Isnt Apple part of the same group, doesnt Apple collude with other companies to suppress wages?

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#712

Post by ifwinterco »

hvb2 wrote: post #569
OtomotO wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly that. I wasn't reachable by phone for company related stuff outside my regular working hours unless I had on-call-duty, which means it was working hours. I don't get why people would be proud about not setting boundaries.

Some people are in it for the challenge. Someone else's outage? Yeah I'll happily help diagnose it, analysing and figuring out where the issue is can teach you a lot of things. For the record, this was never at night. Late in the evening, sure.

Also sometimes (depending on the company) being seen to visibly chip in fighting fires can win you real credibility that you can put in the bank and then use later when you want to slightly slack off for a bit.

So it can actually make logical sense to do it occasionally even from a purely selfish perspective if it's half an hour on a random Tuesday evening and you aren't actually doing anything else important.

All depends if the company is actually going to be grateful or not though

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#713

Post by Tarq0n »

ozgung wrote: post #543
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

I think a mandatory first thing for any engineer is to learn, understand and commit for life to the Ethics of their profession. It's a shame all these very picky recruitment processes and 'culture' of these giant companies didn't care about ethics and morality. Relevant articles in IEEE Code of Ethics: 3. to avoid real or perceived conflicts of interest whenever possible, and to disclose them to affected parties when…

Ethics are probably internalized long before someone commits to an engineering career. I'm not sure they can be taught later.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#714

Post by gessha »

sneak wrote: post #483
moomoo11 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple should buy OpenAI

With what money? I don't think you have looked at OAI's valuation lately.

What they’re actually worth is probably something within Apple’s cash range but investors have other ideas.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#715

Post by gessha »

hahahaa wrote: post #578
mixdup wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the group tasked with developing whatever hardware device they're trying to build is isolated away from senior leadership and is running rogue?

Why not? It may be the old plausable denable thing. Like so many examples. Pressure from the top but no instruction to do $badthing.

We need to take a peek at their diaries again

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#716

Post by Tarq0n »

jtfrench wrote: post #339

Until the industry addresses the Original Sin of Generative AI (and the ascendance of Thievery Corporations), we should expect more and more of this. So far, theft has been rewarded. As long as you make enough money, people seem to be okay with ignoring long-lasting impacts of intellectual theft. As long as you become King of the Cannibals, it seems many are happy to remember you as King and not as the Cannibal.

Ignoring patent law has done great things for 16th century continental Europe and more recently China. Rent-seekers and ladder kickers shouldn't always be respected, they'll slow down societal advancement to a crawl if you let them. The question is whether the gains these AI companies are making from their transgressions are overly privatized.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#717

Post by sumedh »

xp84 wrote: post #106
benoau wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can trust Apple. I mean they openly lied to a judge last year under oath, but you can trust them.

I'm the farthest thing from an Apple fanboi you can find, but Apple's not so unethical as to make all this (OpenAI trade secret) stuff up. The OpenAI settlement they'll no doubt get from this won't amount to 30 days of their App Store rent-seeking that they were propping up with those lies. If they can't prove any of this stuff they wouldn't file the suit. No matter what you or I think of Apple, the chances that this…

> Apple's not so unethical

Apple colluded with other companies to suppress wages.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#718

Post by tekawade »

appplication wrote: post #286
grvdrm wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is how you behave when you think you're so much smarter than everyone around you that consequences don't apply you. Spot on perfect. I see this too often and not just in tech.

An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. Their rationale? “It’s mine, they owed me this”. They are 100% convinced that the…

[dead]

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#719

Post by ifwinterco »

justusthane wrote: post #303
trollbridge wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once worked at a cybersecurity firm and they had a particularly botched rollout of MDM to Macs (which would regularly put the machine into an undesirable mode of 100% CPU usage plus max out upload bandwidth repeatedly trying and failing to backup the machine to some online backup service). I had work to do, so I simply disabled the MDM profile for the machine, installed an OS to my liking, and restored the apps I w…

> then suggested I did get hired for my cybersecurity expertise, that I do take my obligations seriously, and he could just ask me to do whatever they were planning to do from the MDM console, and it would get done. He insisted that wouldn't be necessary since in his worldview the MDM was unbreakable and he just needed to reconnect to Wi-Fi or something. > Very amusing worldview. It’s ironic that you’re displaying th…

I once had work MDM on a Mac just... disappear one day. They definitely didn't intentionally remove it, nor did I do anything to remove it, but one day it just wasn't there. Maybe accidentally removed from the MDM management console for some reason?

Either way, everything still worked exactly as before, just now my Mac wasn't reporting back to the company at all. This went on for over a year until eventually I left the business, handed my laptop in physically and went on my way. I assume they noticed at that point, but before then they apparently had no idea.

I probably should have told someone, but since I hadn't done anything I didn't feel bad about it, and it was a lot easier to get stuff done without the corp stuff breaking everything

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#720

Post by b3kart »

Tarq0n wrote: post #716
jtfrench wrote: post #339

Until the industry addresses the Original Sin of Generative AI (and the ascendance of Thievery Corporations), we should expect more and more of this. So far, theft has been rewarded. As long as you make enough money, people seem to be okay with ignoring long-lasting impacts of intellectual theft. As long as you become King of the Cannibals, it seems many are happy to remember you as King and not as the Cannibal.

Ignoring patent law has done great things for 16th century continental Europe and more recently China. Rent-seekers and ladder kickers shouldn't always be respected, they'll slow down societal advancement to a crawl if you let them. The question is whether the gains these AI companies are making from their transgressions are overly privatized.

I think significantly fewer people would have an issue with this if the profit was socialized. The fact that a company took all of humanity’s data and is profiting from _is_ the issue.
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