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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#601
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve made an extreme leap in your interpretation of the comment you’re replying to…

No, ‘high/low-trust culture’ has lately been co-opted as a racist dog whistle.

It hasn't. People are talking about specific events here.

With your logic, every fact you dislike that makes your side of the argument look bad, can be dogwhitlse.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the allegation make any sense? AI labs can hardly just throw random confidential data into the training and then hope it does not leak into the output of their model in an obvious way. If that would be found it would destroy their main source of revenue, it could became a major national security or healthcare enforcement matter, and result in criminal investigations.

Some of the smartest people on the planet all in the same room, data at their fingertips… they randomly add it to the training set? Labs at least must study prompts in an airgapped fashion. From there, consider how they could generate synthetic data to train another model. After, require trusted staff to do multiple levels of independent granular reviews of all fruits of the highest-value stolen inputs. (Or for model…

That is an interesting thought.

They could run some sort of analysis to find high value input, such as proprietary technology, algorithms, or strategy.

Then they could group them together for one specific topic, and produce a report that analyzes if the information is plausible.

If so, they can have it send to staff for review, who could then create a test set that rewards the model for going into the direction of the proprietary solutions known to work.

I'm no expert, but at least something like that sounds plausible to me. I still very much doubt they are doing this.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#603
post #575

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Even Valve has its sins with questionable monetization, alleged anti-competitive practices, and of course DRM, it's just, for their size it's challenging to find companies that aren't much worse for these bullet points. Still, a rare exception of a company that seems worth the openness of one's mind. It's pretty shameful that this alone is worthy of praise, even forgetting the things Valve does that are just generall…

Questionable monetization meaning essentially turning a blind eye to and profiting from the gambling industry that skirts regulations and targets kids that is enabled by the market for rare skins in their games (as well as the inherently gambling-like means that those skins are sold in the first place).

I'm not even exaggerating when I say that feels utterly benign these days. Merely just choosing to not police it is certainly a choice, but it's still a far cry from the more active participation in basically exploiting people that is pretty much normalized these days with stuff like sports betting and prediction markets.

I don't say this feeling that it is good, just that it is where it feels like we are at right now.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#604
post #255

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I’ve been seeing this “high-trust society” dog whistle a lot lately, and I think it’s one of the funniest of its kind. You truly want me to believe that the United States, a country with a history of slavery and segregation, a country that went through a historical period dominated by people literally called “robber barons,” was a high-trust society before immigrants from less industrialized places came and ruined th…

>I’ve been seeing this “high-trust society” dog whistle a lot lately The concept of high trust and low trust societies is well studied and understood by everyone from academics to people on the street, and is one of the reasons why high trust societies are wealthy, safe, highly developed and low corruption, while low trust societies are generally not as much. It's not a dog whistle for anything racist, you're just be…

trump totally wasn't elected with the help of foreign interference no sir, it was all on the up and up will of the people to have an incompetent waging war in iran(despite saying he wouldn't) and siphoning up money from crypto scams and insider trading.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve been seeing this “high-trust society” dog whistle a lot lately The concept of high trust and low trust societies is well studied and understood by everyone from academics to people on the street, and is one of the reasons why high trust societies are wealthy, safe, highly developed and low corruption, while low trust societies are generally not as much. It's not a dog whistle for anything racist, you're just be…

trump totally wasn't elected with the help of foreign interference no sir, it was all on the up and up will of the people to have an incompetent waging war in iran(despite saying he wouldn't) and siphoning up money from crypto scams and insider trading.

You went so far off-topic that I'm surprised you forgot to mention Jan-6

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. $95k does not seems like enough money to totally upend your life like that for.

Yes seems like would cost a portion of it to execute the escape. Should have just bet it on a 10/1 shot and then kept the 900k if it worked out.

And gone to jail when it doesn’t pan out?

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them […] At $WORK we have the option of getting a work smartphone or having the company pay for (at portion of) our monthly mobile bill. I chose a work device because I do not want any cross-contamination. (Others chose payment because they did not want the 'hassle' of carrying a second device (and to save some cash).)

Yeah. I was encouraged to take the lump-sum money my company paid (like most happily did - not taxed; amount equalling latest base iPhone cost) and get MDM installed on the personal phone so that we could access email and everything on that. Laptop was company issued anyway. I, and very few, chose company phone and I got a new SIM just for the company and set it up (they had to pay the SIM bill as well). A nice side…

> somehow some of my fellow country men/women colleagues took pride in "being available"

I call that being exploitable.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#608
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI really doesn’t have infinite money. They have a lot of money, sure, but it is being burned like crazy, we know this. It is widely known that they are deeply unprofitable. Compare that with Apple, a company that throws off billions of cash every quarter. This isn’t a legit comparison.

Legal fees are insignificant to open ai. Either they get profitable and the money does not run out or they don't, eventually can't raise more and close leaving these proceedings irrelevant. At no point is money as a resource being spent on this legal case any kind of meaningful constraint. Equally true for both open ai and apple. You? You're toast if you need legal justice with either co on the other side. The law ex…

yep the most that will happen is apple/openai co-branded devices or some sort of "corporate synergy" now that everyone knows apple tech is in the upcoming openai stuff. there's no value in it for apple to go nuclear like there was for google to push a competitor out of the market w/ uber vs waymo

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

> This is how you behave when you think you're so much smarter than everyone around you that consequences don't apply to you. Its also how some folks act like when they've done something they morally can't deal with - their subconscious starts throwing all sorts of obvious signs up until they get caught. I presume this was done for a giant pile of cash, stock, and probably a promise that nobody really cares if you sh…

> they morally can't deal with - their subconscious starts throwing all sorts of obvious signs up until they get caught That's the view narcissistic have of human nature: "we feel so bad when we behave selfishly, because deep inside we are so naturally virtuous". It's very comfortable to believe that deep inside we remain virtous/innocent even if our life clearly shows how mediocre we are. In the real world, you are what you do.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. Their rationale? “It’s mine, they owed me this”. They are 100% convinced that the…

$95,000 isn't that much to destroy your life over.

There's homeless people living on the streets or people in jail who destroyed their lives for way less than 95k. Often for nothing, like throwing a punch over a parking spot argument.

You'd be surprised how far down poor impulsive choices can drag you down even when there's no money on the line.

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