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Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

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Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#131

Post by em-bee »

spdionis wrote: post #128
em-bee wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it really an alternative? i'd rather do a 4 hour night shift without breaks than working 8 hours like this in the heat. what am i supposed to do with a 45 minute break? if i am a bricklayer or example, i'd still be stuck on a badly cooled construction site. seems totally not worth it to me. even worse considering that normally breaks are not paid. if we assume that this is the middle of the day, so i work 2 hours…

normally breaks are not paid? in the us maybe

breaks are not work time. you are entitled to breaks, but unless they are quick bathroom breaks they don't count as work, and in places where you have to stamp in to start work you actually have to stamp out for each break. at least that's the law in germany. since germany is one of the countries with stronger employee protection globally, i can hardly imagine any country offering more than this.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#132

Post by robocat »

lrae wrote: post #35

(Slightly) better article: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jul/08/unions-e... OP's submission seems very UK / TUC centric, also doesn't include something many here are bringing up, that they indeed plan to base it on the wet bulb temperature.

> they indeed plan to base it on the wet bulb temperature

WBGT != wet bulb : There's some nasty confusing terms here - and the Grauniad has also got the link wrong - their reporting has not just gotten more biased it has gotten much worse.

WetBulbGlobeTemp = 0.7WetBulbTemp + 0.2DryTemp + 0.1*BlackPaintTemp

In the shade with still air the WBGT approaches the actual temperature as humidity rises.

If sunny and humid it can be above the actual temperature.

For low-humidity moving air the WBGT might be noticeably cooler on a hot day.

At least that's the best summary I can give from the quick skim I looked at.

It's a crappy confusing 50s model supposed to approximate how warm it feels - needs a local meter to test - see image: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_globe_temperature

I find dry bulb temperature along with humidity are better when I travel, because they are more predictable based on historical data and you get to know what matters and make choices according to context. And more helpful in cool climates where damp cool days are nasty.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#134

Post by zarzavat »

cassianoleal wrote: post #88
alex7o wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but still, I don't think it is worth it when you can heqt with it more efficiently than burning gas or coal.

At least in the UK, there's a massive move to heat pumps. The problem is that it's only for heating, through the usual central heating systems - so it just replaces the boiler. It's almost unheard of to have one for air conditioning. Usually people with air-con get a portable one that's only for cooling.

Unfortunately those portable units are scams aimed at people who don't understand how air conditioning works or what an air conditioner is supposed to look like.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#135

Post by snootypoot »

apexalpha wrote: post #107
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

Theres no such thing as “Europeans”. Where I live almost 70% has aircon, all new homes have it too or a proper heatpump.

europeans are the native inhabitants of the region known globally as europe. glad to help.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#136

Post by snootypoot »

vrganj wrote: post #47
petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

It's mostly about the perception that AC is a band-aid that doesn't just stall fixing the root cause of climate change caused by excessive energy consumption, but actively makes it worse.

[dead]

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#137

Post by lemontheme »

petcat wrote: post #32

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high? It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to…

I can only speak for western Europe. New-builds prioritize energy efficiency, because energy is expensive and, depending on the region, involves burning fossil fuels. There also tax incentives. The lucky new builds have reversible floor heating attached to a heat pump. That can keep the temperature around 26 celsius. Still on the warmer side but not unbearable. Anyway, AC is (or at least was) seen as a last resort, hardly worth it for the ten or so actually hot days we get a year. Obviously, that counter has been steadily going up, so the mindset is changing.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#139

Post by globular-toast »

xyzsparetimexyz wrote: post #116
globular-toast wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this "a perception"? It's true isn't it? I'm going to get AC but the situation is quite worrying.

How is it true? Even if emissions went to 0 tomorrow we'd still have heatwaves in Europe. It'll take at least a century to do carbon sequestration back to pre industrial levels even on a very optimistic timeline. Until that's made a good amount of progress, it's common sense to have AC in the places where the most vulnerable gather. Their homes, public transport, train stations, hospices, hospitals.

It's not mutually exclusive. I already said I'm going to have to get it. I already use portable AC which are way less efficient and effective than proper split systems. So yeah, we will have to, but it's still unsustainable and snowballing our way to destruction.

Re: Europe's Largest Unions Demand Right to Cancel Work on Days Above 30C

#140

Post by DicIfTEx »

mamonster wrote: post #25

>The union said employers should take steps to cool down workplaces once temperatures exceed 24C, with workers able to stop working if temperatures reach 30C, or 27C for those doing manual labour or working outdoors. Geneva already has a version of this. You have to stop outside work at 13h00 unless it's necessary, in which case you have to take 45min breaks for every 15 minutes of work. However the threshold isn't 2…

So do several countries, as listed here at https://www.etuc.org/en/pressrelease/climate-crisis-requires... :

> Belgium: 29°C for light physical workload, 26°C for a moderately heavy physical workload, 22°C at heavy physical workload and 18°C at very heavy physical workload

> Hungary: 31°C for sedentary and light physical work, 29°C for moderately physical work and 27°C for heavy physical work

> Latvia: Maximum working temperature for indoor work of 28°C

> Montenegro: Maximum working temperature for outdoor work of 36°C

> Slovenia: The air temperature in work areas must not exceed 28 °C

(although I don't see any obvious similarities between the countries that do and don't have such protections, but based on that list it does seem that former Yugoslav and Soviet states are overrepresented)

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