May be it all depends on how AIs can help us solve the problem. By now, they are more capable than many people that I deal with. So, may be the problem can give us the solution. May be they can figure out a way out of the mess. And sorry to say this, but China and the US are not going to solve this problem, they may even get it worse. Every country is controlled by politicians.
AI 2040: Plan A
271–280 of 567 posts
Re: AI 2040: Plan A
#272The biggest issue with 2027 was that it didn't understand the economy. For AI2027 to be real, the money has to come from somewhere to carry on building the economy. If >10% of the workers suddenly become unemployed, and the rest taking paycuts, then money supply dries up. (unless central banks do something, but then that can be highly inflationary) Without massive amounts of investment, AI development stops dead. In…
Worse, there's actually a very detailed supplement about their economic modeling: https://ai-2040.com/supplements/economics-of-plan-a
Which predicts that explosive growth of robot production will lead to problems such as
> a deflationary debt spiral, where the AI and robot companies can’t pay back loans in dollars because the robots and AIs are worth nominally less than the loans written the year before.
In other words, the companies go bankrupt because they produced an oversupply of cheap goods, the bubble pops, and there's less new investment for a while. Plenty of precedent for such a development.
But instead of adjusting their predicted output growth downwards accordingly, they instead propose that
> One way to solve this could be for the loans to be denominated in AI and robots, so the companies pay back the loans with some percentage of the AI and robots instead of dollars.
Try doing this today with a battery factory for example. You expect that battery prices will fall to the point where the revenue from selling batteries won't ever cover the cost of building the factory. So you propose to a bank that they'll be the ones to build the factory, and you'll borrow it from them (not paying rent?), make your batteries, then give back the factory when you're done. All the profit is yours, all the risk is theirs! Which is of course why a real bank won't agree to this, all you're going to get is a dollar loan with the factory as collateral.
Re: AI 2040: Plan A
#273- whenever i read this, why does it always read like some first world country guy born in a bathtub who has never been outside his bubble, never seen what the rest of the 90% world looks and works like actually sat and wrote a work of fiction - have you seen the actual problems in other countries outside america? - have you been to any country outside USA and the countries in europe? - have you taken a trip to any de…
I think you need to explain why the problems of developing countries are related to the issues of the article.
the article makes a lot of predictions and every single one of em is based on how things work in the USA
Re: AI 2040: Plan A
#274I would not like to be dismissive, but to me this article feels like an exercise in creative writing rather than a report to be taken seriously. The entire experience feels like a choose your own adventure game, seems like their stylistic intent. I am not sure if alternative reality fiction is the best way to approach real and serious AI risks. I am also not sure, with the amount of emdashes and the style of prose, t…
I love to model and simulate. As the dead economy theory[0] (discussion [1]) was submitted here, I decided to simulate it. It was really hard to figure out a path "good for the humanity", in the sense of a balanced system, not a winner take all situation, etc. I think this is the reason why you have the tendency to propose some freeze-all policies, full control or similar. If you want to find the equilibrium, you nee…
Saddle point is a nice way to put it.
Re: AI 2040: Plan A
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is that true or does it only feel true because they nerf the old models just before every major release?
I remember being blown away by o1-o3 family of models finally stringing together coherent agentic tool calls to write and execute scripts semi-reliably for workloads in the several minutes before they would start hallucinating/flailing. GPT 5 was a bit ahead of that, but barely Now we take for granted that the latest models can juggle between multiple browser tabs, applications, databases, simulators, docker etc to w…
Can you share what's your setup for all that orchestration? I feel way behind just asking Claude Code for code edits. Is there any site where people share different AI setups, besides youtube?
Re: AI 2040: Plan A
#276This is religious fervor folks, as AI 2027 was. I grew up in evangelical christianity, and to them the end of the world is just around the corner, the same way it has been since I was a small child and likely will be when we are all gone. This isn't science. This isn't hypothesis experiment record results. This is very expensive astrology, shiny rock collecting, ritualistic meaning-making and self-justification. Yall…
[flagged]
Re: AI 2040: Plan A
#277This is religious fervor folks, as AI 2027 was. I grew up in evangelical christianity, and to them the end of the world is just around the corner, the same way it has been since I was a small child and likely will be when we are all gone. This isn't science. This isn't hypothesis experiment record results. This is very expensive astrology, shiny rock collecting, ritualistic meaning-making and self-justification. Yall…
It's nuts how well "Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People"[0] aged. That talk is a decade old by now and still hits just as hard as it did back then, despite the incredible advances made in AI in the meantime. [0] https://idlewords.com/talks/superintelligence.htm
Yeah I think its possible that for many folks its the first time they're coming up on these concepts, and it troubles them in the same way that the concept of death troubles them (and me, to be clear!).
For me its as simple as watching how people talk, and seeing how in every single case whatever the next thing is, if you believe It, there is only ever justification of doubling down, doing more, going deeper, reducing any doubt. These are not scientists, they're business people and salespeople, and a few optimists having recently on paper solved all their worldly financial needs.
Even if one throws that aside, spending time exploring and building with the most state of the art LLMs is just as instructive. I'm watching the implementation - whats working is ML models trained on specific domains (not much different than 5+ years ago), and whats not working is a general model that humanity can let go to work on its own. Sit in front and observe ideas turn to the samey intellectual, high-syllable mush. Its productive, but not in any way that's promised.
Re: AI 2040: Plan A
#278This is religious fervor folks, as AI 2027 was. I grew up in evangelical christianity, and to them the end of the world is just around the corner, the same way it has been since I was a small child and likely will be when we are all gone. This isn't science. This isn't hypothesis experiment record results. This is very expensive astrology, shiny rock collecting, ritualistic meaning-making and self-justification. Yall…
It's nuts how well "Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People"[0] aged. That talk is a decade old by now and still hits just as hard as it did back then, despite the incredible advances made in AI in the meantime. [0] https://idlewords.com/talks/superintelligence.htm
[deleted]
Re: AI 2040: Plan A
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we’d be allowing a gap to open up that would make the difference between colonial europe and colonized Asia/Africa look trivial. An easy choice to make if the alternative is everyone dying instead.
The alternative isn’t “everyone dying.” It’s us holding all the cards.
> The alternative isn’t “everyone dying.” It’s us holding all the cards.
That's one outcome, certainly, but not the only one nor, I contend, the most likely one.
A most likely outcome of ASI is human extinction, because there's more paths to an ELE outcome for humans from ASI than there is for non-extinction level outcome.
Your outcome is only possible if:
1. ASI is never able to escape the confines it is placed in.
2. ASI is benevolent to humans.
3. ASI decides, in the spirit of its benevolence, that it should restrict its involvement in humans.
If all three of the above conditions are met, then sure, your outcome is possible. If not, humanity as we know it will end.
It is unlikely that those 3 conditions will all hold, though.
Re: AI 2040: Plan A
#280I would not like to be dismissive, but to me this article feels like an exercise in creative writing rather than a report to be taken seriously. The entire experience feels like a choose your own adventure game, seems like their stylistic intent. I am not sure if alternative reality fiction is the best way to approach real and serious AI risks. I am also not sure, with the amount of emdashes and the style of prose, t…
Yes. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge the efficiency difference between pretraining vs RL and assume that since we've run out of data for the former, we have to do the latter, is not making a serious attempt at modelling the future:
https://www.tobyord.com/writing/inefficiency-of-reinforcemen...
This is similar to that other exponential, which happened with CPUs - we ran out of true geometric scaling in the mid 2000s, and everything else supporting Moore's Law has been cleverness that arrived in the nick of time, supported by a bit of marketing, and very optimizable benchmarks, far from guaranteed gains coming from making a single physical metric better.