Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#51

Post by keithpeter » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:29 PM UTC

nicholassmith wrote: post #29

Ubuntu install a custom application that does something involving sending data out -> We're doomed! They're spying and tracking you! Grab the pitchforks! Of course, that's RMS' viewpoint and he's entitled to it, and it often provokes some very interesting discussions around it, but he's terrible at being anything other than over the top. For what it's worth I don't think what Ubuntu did was that a bad a thing, it's a…

"...it's a nice revenue stream for those that use it..."

I'm not entirely convinced that this is going to make a lot of money for Canonical. It will be interesting to see figures in a couple of releases if Canonical (which is a private company) decide to tell us.

What do we think the value to Amazon is of my random desktop searches for files & stuff on my desktop?

The 'slow typing' problem is real: search is dynamic and can, as a result of network latency and fat fingering show results of unfortunately shortened search terms. There is no content filtering on the results. That is actually why I switched it off.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#52

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:33 PM UTC

jasonkostempski wrote: post #38

Are there other distros with Wubi (or something like it) and automatic updates? If it weren't for Wubi I don't think I would have ever fully switched to Linux. VMs are OK for a bit and repartitioning is right out if all you want to do is try something out for a while. I don't use Ubuntu anymore but Wubi really was the gateway drug for me. I personally don't care about automatic updates but I think it's a big one for…

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#53

Post by takluyver » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:34 PM UTC

meaty wrote: post #47

takluyver wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not fully accurate. The main search box does local+global search unless you turn off the global part in settings. But you can easily do local searches only: Super+F for files, Super+A for applications.

Yes fully accurate. By DEFAULT it does local+global search. Motivation for user to turn this off - low. Education on what it's going to do - none. This is about as unethical as it can get. Even Windows 8 asks religiously before sending anything.

To be clear, my 'not fully accurate' was in response to your "Local searches do not remain private". Local searches do remain private, and there are several ways of doing them. But the default search is not a local-only search.

I agree with you: I expect the default search to be local-only, and I've turned off remote results. But it's not as though it hides the fact that it's searching remotely. So I stand by my words: it's not fully accurate to say that local searches are exposed.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#54

Post by icebraining » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:34 PM UTC

jasonkostempski wrote: post #38

Are there other distros with Wubi (or something like it) and automatic updates? If it weren't for Wubi I don't think I would have ever fully switched to Linux. VMs are OK for a bit and repartitioning is right out if all you want to do is try something out for a while. I don't use Ubuntu anymore but Wubi really was the gateway drug for me. I personally don't care about automatic updates but I think it's a big one for…

Wubi-like: http://goodbye-microsoft.com/

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#55

Post by takluyver » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:37 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #42

rexreed wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He definitely got the point across to me! I had been considering installing Ubuntu desktop, but this article definitely made me think twice. So, I'd say the article had its intended effect. That being said, reading the other comments here, it looks like there's more nuance in what is actually happening here. This is Ubuntu Desktop using the global search, which sends search queries to a central server. While I don't…

There is no local search. There only global search, but historically the global search was only for local files.

There is local search - either by turning off remote results, or using the files/application lenses (Super+F/A). But the default search box does a global search.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#56

Post by curiousdannii » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:37 PM UTC

justinf wrote: post #18

I'd guess that the only way to really dislodge the Amazon widget would be to make sure it remains unprofitable. If it remains a major talking point and doesn't pull in enough money to compensate for its negative effect on community evangelism, it won't last long. I have mixed feelings about the new system. On the one hand, I respect a lot of what Canonical is doing with linux regarding mainstreaming, streamlining, an…

Amazon postage is prohibitively expensive for those outside the US (except perhaps for those who live in another country where Amazon is based?) The only time I'd ever use Amazon is if I'm after an old rare book which is out of print and Amazon is the only place I can find a second hand copy. And in those times I'd actually be deliberately searching for it, checking many sites in my browser, not casually using Unity!

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#57

Post by randallsquared » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:38 PM UTC

estel wrote: post #14

jessaustin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was "over the top" about the linked piece? It's got to be the most even-tempered thing I've ever read from RMS. Did you actually read TFA before posting this comment?

I found referring to the Kindle as being for "virtual book burning" straying into rhetoric.

I found it merely confusing. In the context of computers, "burning" means "saving to disk" (as in "rip, mix, burn" or "we burn the documents as a secondary cache"), which is exactly something that Kindle tries to make harder.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#58

Post by decasteve » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:40 PM UTC

I am running 12.10 and disabled this right away in the privacy settings.

Why not have it opt in instead of the ninja mode opt out? Explicitly prompt the user to enable this when first using Dash but disable by default.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#59

Post by belorn » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:42 PM UTC

A lot of people are pointing out that if you do not like something, don't use it. It's simple enough, and have a "sounds right" tone to it. As an implied statement with this, anyone complaining should just shut up then.

This is a rather crazy line of thought once one actually starts to think about it. If I see a poisonous (say rotten) food being sold, I find it almost my duty to inform people. Somehow it's now being argued, that I should stay quiet and vote with my feet/wallet instead? If a company does something clearly distasteful and harmful to others, staying quiet and voting with your feet is not a good idea. This should be obvious to everyone. At best, you are ignoring the problem, and at worst, you are implicitly allowing the situation to continue.

If something is harming others, staying quiet or saying that "users should know better and not act like they do" is not the way to go. If the search box was labeled "ask amazon about this", then this would have been a no-brainer and no one would object to this. Its the same as labeling some food-like objects as non-edible. Canonical search however does not do this, and tricks users to send data that they believe is private.

Imagine a worker at a company, using this function to search for internal document including a string with company secrets. Whooops, now that data is at Amazon. Imagine a police worker, seaching for email with witness details. whooops, now that data is also sent to Amazon. Imagine a normal person searching for emails that includes their credit card. Whoops, gone gone. And let's not discuss things that private people honestly, truly, do not wish other people know, or for that matter, journalists.

This is not fair to the users, and RMS points this out. It might even be illegal in some if not all european countries. At the least it's something to write about and inform users about the risk involved.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#60

Post by nicholassmith » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:42 PM UTC

keithpeter wrote: post #51

nicholassmith wrote: post #29

Ubuntu install a custom application that does something involving sending data out -> We're doomed! They're spying and tracking you! Grab the pitchforks! Of course, that's RMS' viewpoint and he's entitled to it, and it often provokes some very interesting discussions around it, but he's terrible at being anything other than over the top. For what it's worth I don't think what Ubuntu did was that a bad a thing, it's a…

"...it's a nice revenue stream for those that use it..." I'm not entirely convinced that this is going to make a lot of money for Canonical. It will be interesting to see figures in a couple of releases if Canonical (which is a private company) decide to tell us. What do we think the value to Amazon is of my random desktop searches for files & stuff on my desktop? The 'slow typing' problem is real: search is dynamic…

I'd imagine they'll get some money out of it, even if it's not a huge amount, there's plenty of people who like it and think it's useful. The value to Amazon isn't what you're searching, but that you might go "Hey, that's the album I was thinking of buy", and then you're in their content ecosystem.

I don't use Unity as a daily driver but I switched it off due to the network latency and general slowness inside a VM. Aside from that I thought it was pretty decent, it'd be nice if there was more content sources but you can't win them all.