Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#31

Post by drcube » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:09 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #15

rlpb wrote: post #8

"When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers." That's not how I see it. I'd correct this to "When the user performs a global search for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers to perform that search". If a user wants to search his own local files without searching the entire I…

Yes, using find and grep won't trigger a network search (unless of course it's on an NFS server or something like that)

They're on it. :)

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bu...

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#32

Post by radarsat1 » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:09 PM UTC

estel wrote: post #14

jessaustin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was "over the top" about the linked piece? It's got to be the most even-tempered thing I've ever read from RMS. Did you actually read TFA before posting this comment?

I found referring to the Kindle as being for "virtual book burning" straying into rhetoric.

What would you call this kind of thing then?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/oct/22/amazon-wipes-cus...

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#33

Post by sparkie » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:10 PM UTC

damian2000 wrote: post #12

Do people using Ubuntu not also use web browsers? If so, then they are also being spied on by others such as google, amazon, facebook, twitter - every time they use one of their sites. I just find it overly dramatic to be focusing on this one point of Ubuntu's search being harvested for keywords when this sort of thing is commonplace on the web. At least with Ubuntu you have the option to turn it off.

We don't associate google, amazon, twitter and facebook with free software and personal liberties though - where Ubuntu is traditionally associated with these due to it's origins.

Just because something is commonplace does not make it justified, and it's perfectly right to criticize the decision to do it. We criticize google and the rest for doing the same - just that most people are not concerned, or not informed.

IMO, any communication done by your OS to any server, without informed consent is a direct threat to privacy, and should be criticized, even if it's "convenient".

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#34

Post by takluyver » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:10 PM UTC

rlpb wrote: post #8

"When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers." That's not how I see it. I'd correct this to "When the user performs a global search for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers to perform that search". If a user wants to search his own local files without searching the entire I…

There is some mileage to this argument - the search box doesn't really pretend to be local-only. But for the last three releases (from when Unity was introduced), it was only a local search, and I think many users expected it to stay that way. It's also somewhat uncomfortable that the easiest way to launch an application or open a file is to do an online search.

For me, it's annoying, and I've turned it off in the settings. But it's not such a big deal that I want to fork Ubuntu, or even switch distro.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#35

Post by debacle » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:11 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #15

rlpb wrote: post #8

"When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers." That's not how I see it. I'd correct this to "When the user performs a global search for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers to perform that search". If a user wants to search his own local files without searching the entire I…

Yes, using find and grep won't trigger a network search (unless of course it's on an NFS server or something like that)

"Desktop" users, of the kind that Ubuntu wants to adopt, aren't going to be using find and grep.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#36

Post by josephlord » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:11 PM UTC

EwanToo wrote: post #13

jessaustin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was "over the top" about the linked piece? It's got to be the most even-tempered thing I've ever read from RMS. Did you actually read TFA before posting this comment?

I'm not going to go line by line, but you could start with this: Proprietary software is associated with malicious treatment of the user I don't believe 99% of people out there associate proprietary software with malicious treatment.

He didn't assert anything about peoples associations. He asserted that that there is an association between proprietary software and malicious treatment of the user. Now knowing a little about what RMS regards as malicious that is undoubtedly true in terms of the lack of freedoms.

Even on a narrower definition of malicious if it includes user tracking/monitoring then large amounts of proprietary software can be regarded as malicious. I would narrow my definition of malicious a little more personally but there are large amounts of fairly malicious software out there, very little of it Free software.

You might need to pick another line to take apart.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#37

Post by itry » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:12 PM UTC

I find this spyware by default as wrong as Stallman. I dont want my machine to send anything anywhere without me explicitly telling it to do so.

What I find even more frightening is Mark Shuttelworths view of this:

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182

"Don’t trust us? Erm, we have root."

Looks like he gets the issues of privacy and trust completely wrong. Imagine catching your cleaning lady reading your diary. And she says, without a sign of guilt, "Don't trust me? Erm, I got keys to your apartment.".

Time for a new cleaning lady.

Time for a new distro. I happily switched to Mint.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#38

Post by jasonkostempski » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:12 PM UTC

Are there other distros with Wubi (or something like it) and automatic updates? If it weren't for Wubi I don't think I would have ever fully switched to Linux. VMs are OK for a bit and repartitioning is right out if all you want to do is try something out for a while. I don't use Ubuntu anymore but Wubi really was the gateway drug for me. I personally don't care about automatic updates but I think it's a big one for some others. When I switched away from Ubuntu I thought I'd be missing out on the community behind it but it's really the Linux community in general that's awesome, a lot of the stuff just ends up on Ubuntu forums and much of the advice is universal. I think people need to know that.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#39

Post by shardling » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:13 PM UTC

meaty wrote: post #23

retube wrote: post #9

I have to say, having been a huge ubuntu fan for many years, I am seriously dismayed and dissapointed. This destroys my trust in Ubuntu completely. They have ruined a great thing. Was just about to put Ubuntu on a new machine, now I'll have to switch distos. Any recommendations? Edit: I think I have misunderstood. I assumed this referred to a commmand line (s)locate or find or grep or similar. Apparently it refers to…

Local searches do not remain private as there is only one search box for global and local stuff. So when you type "goat porn" expecting it to open your folder of goat porn on your workstation, it will send it to amazon and show goat porn that you didn't want to see and tell amazon and canonical that you are interested in goat porn. In a few years time[1], on your lifetime leased IPV6 address you will pop up a legitim…

It's pretty obvious from the post he meant explicitly local searches, like those he gives examples of.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#40

Post by justinf » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 2:14 PM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #30

justinf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a question of context and expectations. I expect people to look at me funny when I walk around in boxer shorts in public, but not at home. Were someone to stand at my window while I'm on my couch and complain about my choice in clothing, I'd have a right to complain. Your angst over this new system depends largely on whether you consider behavior outside of your browser to take place in a public or private space…

That depends on how you view the global search function - which is more like being in your back garden and looking at the view. In that location people can and have successfully argued you should put some clothes on.

Have you been talking to my neighbors?

I completely agree, but not everyone will, and that perception is key to the discussion.