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AI 2040: Plan A

ai-2040.com

201–210 of 567 posts

Re: AI 2040: Plan A

#201

I'm sure some people will have issue with my phrasing but, honest question: Are there examples of where we have collective decided not to pursue knowledge? Successfully? I guess nuclear weapons might be the best example though research doesn't seem have to actually "stopped" as much as gone underground and we still have country trying to climb that ladder. But I don't know how relevant that is to LLMs/AI. It almost f…

While technology has empowered governments, it’s also empowered the individual, and more importantly shifted the material dynamics to better align the incentives of governments with the people. Democracy followed material change, it didn’t precede it. Democracy came about because it was optimal for a power seeking government, not out of the kindness of their heart. A resource extraction based economy sees people as s…

> Democracy came about because it was optimal for a power seeking government, not out of the kindness of their heart

It's not clear in this context what you actually mean by "government." You are assigning agency to something in a way that seems like a reification. While a bureaucracy can seem to have a life of its own, isn't it generally people who seek power?

Re: AI 2040: Plan A

#202

Why are they obsessed with China?! Actually most of the US are. I guess if you’ve been a colonizer, your biggest fear is to be colonized.

Perhaps it’s because they are #2 strongest entity? Or maybe they are number 1, no one can say for sure. Your comment also implies that those who haven’t participated in colonization might not fear being colonized. Seems… off.

I’m not saying that … my point is if you treat someone like you’re enemy they will become your enemy

Re: AI 2040: Plan A

#203
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I attended an auction of a golf course a few years ago. It went for a few thousand an acre. You could have shown up and bid on it. The winner ended up just choosing to keep the current employees and keep operating it. Nobody, I mean nobody, wanted the land for development. It was in an era with basically no zoning either.

No, in fact, most of us could not have just shown up and bid on it with any expectation of a meaningful outcome.

I'm saying that if you don't like how a golf course is being used, then attend an auction of one, because they are rapidly going out of business and the assets being auctioned off.

America is not suffering from too many golf courses being constructed. They are, rather, going extinct, and I don't really think the mass loss of green spaces and third spaces is necessarily a good thing, even though I'm not someone who enjoys playing golf and don't really spend any time at golf courses.

Re: AI 2040: Plan A

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as "valuable", the golf course is private property that the owners presumably bought and can do with as they see fit. If you want to develop it into something else, make an offer to them? The golf courses are a business like any other (although we do have some publicly-owned golf courses around here too). The cost to play 9 holes on a weekday is $10 at one of them. I'm not really sure what you're asking for he…

Data centers have negative externalities which is why people don't think anyone should just be able to buy land and turn it into one. Once of those negative externalities is water usage. The parent was commenting on the also high water usage of golf courses. Perhaps that's the connection you've missed.

That's highly dependent on the area it's in. Where I live, golf courses use no more water than anyone else and aren't irrigated.

The proper answer would be to simply charge appropriate prices for large scale uses of water from the water utility, or else this is a discussion about riparian rights and law and possible changes needed to that.

Re: AI 2040: Plan A

#205
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What leads you to believe that?

Things like https://www.tobyord.com/writing/hourly-costs-for-ai-agents and https://www.tobyord.com/writing/mostly-inference-scaling seem in line with other accounts like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR20FWCCjAs ?

The author of the posts you linked also wrote https://www.tobyord.com/writing/inference-scaling-reshapes-a... which posits:

> AI labs may also be able to reap tremendous benefit from these inference-scaled models by using them as part of the training process. If so, the large scale-up of compute resources could go into post-training rather than deployment. This would have very different implications for AI governance.

> ...

> So iterated distillation and amplification provides a plausible pathway for scaling inference-during-training to rapidly create much more powerful AI systems. Arguably this would constitute a form of ‘recursive self-improvement’ where AI systems are applied to the task of improving their own capabilities, leading to a rapid escalation.

So "inference scaling is required to scale capabilities" doesn't mean that we're reaching the top of the S-curve in intelligence. If anything, it could mean a shorter timeline and more unpredictable landscape for governance (e.g. due to securing weights no longer as effectively preventing escalation, more in the article).

Re: AI 2040: Plan A

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An obvious question is if the cheap power is going to stay cheap after a large power-user comes in who has a proven track record of trying to make everything cheap for themselves with no regard for anyone else. Or another question to ask is - how does this data centre benefit the people who live there? If it doesn't, there's no reason they should want one to be built. Rubbish tips are necessary. I still don't want on…

Here's a better question: as we've had nearly as large of a data center build-out happen between 2005 and 2020 for non-AI purposes, with similarly high electricity and water demands...where has the concern been? Why is it only in the last 2-3 years that people are suddenly up in arms, as a very specific application is being deployed?

The amount of data-centre construction is far more than it was 2-3 years ago.

There seems to be an alarmingly high amount of questionable data centre construction going on, such as projects being built in places with no access to power with an assumption they can somehow force the utility to provide it later. These buildouts seem to be being done for financial reasons (they are not Meta, Amazon, Azure, etc. facilities) with the hope to lease them out or sell them half-completed in the future. People rightfully don't want that kind of thing in their back yard.

To give a feel for the scale involved, this one (the new Amazon east DC) in my podunk area of the state is 250 MW (the existing us-east-2 in Columbus is 200 MW, although I'm not clear if this will be a new region or is just an additional availability zone). But that's small potatoes compared to the speculative project in Piketon, which amongst more absurd things is planned to be:

- 10 gigawatts (equal to 50% of current power consumption statewide) - "Modular" nuclear reactors built on site - 35,000 construction workers needed to build it (in a county with a total population less than that) - $30-$40 billion for the data centre, plus another $33 billion to build the 9 gigawatt natural gas electric plant - Meta agreeing to build an additional 1.2 GW nuclear plant on site - OpenAI in negotiations to lease the facility

This is a really big project, of the scale of "nothing like this has ever been done before". Nobody has ever built that much power generation at a single site before, nor has a datacentre this large ever been constructed. There is a very real risk of the project getting halfway done and then being unable to be completed. The prospect of a state literally doubling its electric generation is a bit ambitious, too (doing such means basically a complete revamp of the power distribution grid, or else some very novel designs to only use the power locally). For example, the normal type of shutoffs data centres have to prevent eg an incoming have are unacceptable in this situation because the grid cannot cope with 20 GW of demand suddenly disappearing.

Re: AI 2040: Plan A

#208
This is the same nonsense as before except now they are pushing out their prediction by 3 years. This is just fear mongering fan fiction.

They are also claiming that China may go to war with the US if our AI is better than theirs. They are coming up with scary scenarios which realistically won't happen.

>The problem with an intelligence explosion is the "explosion" part.

It's not a literal explosion. If we explosively ended world hunger that would be a good thing. Similar to having an abundance of food for everyone, having an abundance of intelligence is wildly beneficial to society. The article doesn't mention it but an explosion isn't guaranteed we could just see a plateau of capabilities due to bottlenecks of resources needed to power AI, time needed to run AI, and limited interaction with the real world. AI can't run science experiments on its own by the 2030 doomsday timeline

Re: AI 2040: Plan A

#210
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and we haven't even really begun to nail down computer-use agents yet (can you believe they're still basically just OCR'ing screenshots?) Once we have something that experiences a desktop interface more like a human does, an entire swathe of tooling that has heretofore been nigh-impossible to automate moves into the fold, and that'll be another explosion of folks finally getting to join the agentic workflow worl…

How do you think humans experience desktop interfaces? “Basically just OCR'ing screenshots” is exactly what humans do.

It's not the same thing. For example, given a GUI with a titlebar, title, subtitle, text, and buttons, a human can instantly understand spatially the relationship between these items. But a naive OCR of such a GUI would be a flat stream of text that loses a ton of information.
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