Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#11

Post by eternalban » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:51 PM UTC

daniel-cussen wrote: post #3

EwanToo wrote: post #2

It's always interesting to read RMS' posts, though I don't agree with a lot of them. In this case, he's got a very valid point (I disabled the adverts on my Ubuntu install), but he uses such over the top language that it makes much of his writing seem like a parody. Ubuntu sending all desktop searches to Amazon by default (even if it's via a proxy) isn't cool, and isn't what most users would expect, but I don't belie…

He's not good at getting his point across, only at having good points.

Right, and for his good point to 'get across', it needs a connector of some sort. One end point of that connector is in your control.

RMS has been /clearly/ right-on regarding these matters from day 1. It is the proverbial 'you' that is refusing to 'listen' ...

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#12

Post by damian2000 » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:51 PM UTC

Do people using Ubuntu not also use web browsers? If so, then they are also being spied on by others such as google, amazon, facebook, twitter - every time they use one of their sites.

I just find it overly dramatic to be focusing on this one point of Ubuntu's search being harvested for keywords when this sort of thing is commonplace on the web. At least with Ubuntu you have the option to turn it off.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#13

Post by EwanToo » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:51 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #6

EwanToo wrote: post #2

It's always interesting to read RMS' posts, though I don't agree with a lot of them. In this case, he's got a very valid point (I disabled the adverts on my Ubuntu install), but he uses such over the top language that it makes much of his writing seem like a parody. Ubuntu sending all desktop searches to Amazon by default (even if it's via a proxy) isn't cool, and isn't what most users would expect, but I don't belie…

What was "over the top" about the linked piece? It's got to be the most even-tempered thing I've ever read from RMS. Did you actually read TFA before posting this comment?

I'm not going to go line by line, but you could start with this:

Proprietary software is associated with malicious treatment of the user

I don't believe 99% of people out there associate proprietary software with malicious treatment.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#14

Post by estel » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:52 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #6

EwanToo wrote: post #2

It's always interesting to read RMS' posts, though I don't agree with a lot of them. In this case, he's got a very valid point (I disabled the adverts on my Ubuntu install), but he uses such over the top language that it makes much of his writing seem like a parody. Ubuntu sending all desktop searches to Amazon by default (even if it's via a proxy) isn't cool, and isn't what most users would expect, but I don't belie…

What was "over the top" about the linked piece? It's got to be the most even-tempered thing I've ever read from RMS. Did you actually read TFA before posting this comment?

I found referring to the Kindle as being for "virtual book burning" straying into rhetoric.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#15

Post by raverbashing » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:52 PM UTC

rlpb wrote: post #8

"When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers." That's not how I see it. I'd correct this to "When the user performs a global search for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers to perform that search". If a user wants to search his own local files without searching the entire I…

Yes, using find and grep won't trigger a network search (unless of course it's on an NFS server or something like that)

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#16

Post by rahoulb » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:52 PM UTC

jeremiep wrote: post #7

daniel-cussen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not good at getting his point across, only at having good points.

I believe its the other way around; the general public is not generally good at understanding the wisdom of his points.

As someone who nods my head in agreement to RMS most of the time (although I use proprietary software extensively), when I actually went to see him speak in person, I ended up feeling that he had weakened his case with the way he presented himself.

However, this article is well-written and clear.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#17

Post by rexreed » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:52 PM UTC

daniel-cussen wrote: post #3

EwanToo wrote: post #2

It's always interesting to read RMS' posts, though I don't agree with a lot of them. In this case, he's got a very valid point (I disabled the adverts on my Ubuntu install), but he uses such over the top language that it makes much of his writing seem like a parody. Ubuntu sending all desktop searches to Amazon by default (even if it's via a proxy) isn't cool, and isn't what most users would expect, but I don't belie…

He's not good at getting his point across, only at having good points.

He definitely got the point across to me! I had been considering installing Ubuntu desktop, but this article definitely made me think twice. So, I'd say the article had its intended effect.

That being said, reading the other comments here, it looks like there's more nuance in what is actually happening here. This is Ubuntu Desktop using the global search, which sends search queries to a central server. While I don't appreciate that either, at least it's not what I had thought from reading the headline that it was sending all local file searches to a server. So, it's a particular behavior, but still, Ubuntu should provide transparency as to what is happening, and even though the user can turn this feature off, (Stallman even states as such: "Ubuntu allows users to switch the surveillance off") the default on behavior is what I sense he is objecting to.

Perhaps a suggestion for a more nuanced title (which might not have the same dramatic effect, but would be more accurate): "Ubuntu Desktop Global Search sends Queries to Central Server, and shares with Amazon, by Default!"

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#18

Post by justinf » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:55 PM UTC

I'd guess that the only way to really dislodge the Amazon widget would be to make sure it remains unprofitable. If it remains a major talking point and doesn't pull in enough money to compensate for its negative effect on community evangelism, it won't last long.

I have mixed feelings about the new system. On the one hand, I respect a lot of what Canonical is doing with linux regarding mainstreaming, streamlining, and even Unity. I also recognize that they are a company and need to make money, and think Amazon integration is preferable to dozens of preinstalled, hard-to-remove junkware applications.

On the other hand, I really don't like the intrusive-by-default nature of the integration, and the fact that I'll have to go tell all the folks I've installed Ubuntu for that they need to essentially disable spyware the next time they do a distribution upgrade.

On the third hand (what, you don't have one?) I'm not sure what other profitable solutions Canonical might implement in a community that values privacy and freedom.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#19

Post by shabble » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:57 PM UTC

Whilst his point is clearly that Ubuntu should be punished (by users switching to alternative distros), it would have been nice to provide or link to some detail about how to disable this behaviour, for those who can't or won't reinstall.

Also, 'virtual book burning', really? These snide little terms detract from his core (and important) message, and come across as just petty. I think there's probably an Internet Law that you can safely ignore anything by people who use a $ symbol in the word 'Microsoft'.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#20

Post by meaty » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 1:58 PM UTC

estel wrote: post #14

jessaustin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was "over the top" about the linked piece? It's got to be the most even-tempered thing I've ever read from RMS. Did you actually read TFA before posting this comment?

I found referring to the Kindle as being for "virtual book burning" straying into rhetoric.

It's actually not rhetoric - it's a play on Bradbury's comment about e-readers "smelling like burned fuel" (read Fahrenheit 451 for the background of this).

I own a Kobo, but it's been seriously hacked by myself so it doesn't call home and only talks to SD cards. It also only gets non DRM epubs on it. Anything more would be considered virtual book burning on my part as well.